homosexuality inherited?

[Didacus]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Oct 23 2005, 09:23 AM'][snip].

And in any case, it does not change what the Church teaches.
[right][snapback]768057[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

I fully agree with that last statement. It makes all this 'debarting' a little pointless, wouldn't you say?

[Jaime]

[quote name='Didacus' date='Oct 23 2005, 10:09 AM']I fully agree with that last statement.  It makes all this 'debarting' a little pointless, wouldn't you say?
[right][snapback]768081[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Well since the topic isn't Church related, I don't think its that pointless.

[Cam42]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Oct 23 2005, 10:23 AM']No.  I'm correcting the statement that alcoholism is purely environmental.  That statement was wrong.  The jury is still out whether or not there are genetic factors in homosexuality.  Studies on the size differential of the hypothalamus within homosexuals will be debated by people smarter than me. But I think its telling that there are twin studies where one twin is straight and the other is homosexual.  There is a mirroring factor within twins.  There are many cases where one twin is right handed and one is left handed.  The argument is that homosexual tendencies could be a part of that "mirroring" of fraternal twins.

And in any case, it does not change what the Church teaches.
[right][snapback]768057[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Couldn't agree more.....and here is what the Church teaches:

[quote name='CCC #2357']Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.[/quote]

[quote name='CCC #2358']The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.[/quote]

[quote name='CCC #2359']Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.[/quote]

Notice that the Church doesn't teach on the physiological, simply the psychological and physical action. However, the impotice is that since the action cannot be approved, it is something that is controllable. With that being said, it would also follow that even though we don't know the inclination or the psychological genesis, we can make enough of a moral judgment to be able to hate the sin.

With all that being said, we must remember that science is not the end, only the means. Science is a way to understand the Creation of the World and the way it works. It should be complimentary, not exclusive of the understanding of God.

Even that being said, allows us to be able to find ways to help. We can, help them overcome their affliction. Since the Church deems it to be an affliction, the Church is saying that regardless of the psychological genesis or the inclination, right reason can overcome. Humans, being rational creatures can choose right from wrong. Humans can choose, regardless of the environment, not to take that drink or not to engage in a sexual situation that is contrary to the complimentary nature of the person.

Is homosexuality inherited? I cannot say. I follow the lead of the Church. She says homosexual persons, like all others, are called to chastity. Regardless of the psychological or physiological reasons, we can choose, either to be or not to be chaste.

[StatingTheObvious]

[quote name='jasJis' date='Oct 23 2005, 09:57 AM']With this 'except' statement you are making the statement Homosexuality is not hereditary and you cant be predispositioned to additiction and it IS simply environment?  You missed the point of Era's post (which I agree with wholeheartedly).   I believe that homosexuality MAY have a hereditary PREDISPOSITION, like Alcoholism.  Environment also plays a major role, but hereditary predisposition and environmental factors don't make Homosexuality okay, just as it doesn't make Alcoholism okay.
[right][snapback]768054[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Little hint...
Read the post before you agree or harp.

I read your post, and agree, but it's obvious that Era was saying something different. [color=red]rude comment [/color].

Edited October 23, 2005 by cmotherofpirl

[dspen2005]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Oct 22 2005, 10:56 PM']what if it's a middle aged man who's attracted to 8-year old girls, or vice versa?
[right][snapback]767624[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

the attraction is neutral, in either case... the question of morality is in the state of acting these out...

[Cam42]

[quote name='StatingTheObvious' date='Oct 23 2005, 12:04 PM']Little hint...
Read the post before you agree or harp.

I read your post, and agree, but it's obvious that Era was saying something different.  You just fed the phatmass toady 'tag-team'.
[right][snapback]768113[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Well, that ad hominem was very mature of you. Especially, since I gave solid Catholic teaching.....

Wanna make something of me, good luck.....and have at it....

[Era Might]

Any biological cause of homosexuality would have to be a genetic or some other physiological abnormality. IOW, it would not be a natural occurence, but a corruption.

And no, I do not think such is the case. I believe homosexuality is a psychological abnormality, as are other sexual disorders.

[jasJis]

[quote name='StatingTheObvious' date='Oct 23 2005, 11:04 AM']Little hint...
Read the post before you agree or harp.

I read your post, and agree, but it's obvious that Era was saying something different.  You just fed the phatmass toady 'tag-team'.
[right][snapback]768113[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]Couldn't you have just said you agree with me?

[Cam42]

[quote name='jasJis' date='Oct 23 2005, 02:33 PM']Couldn't you have just said you agree with me?     
[right][snapback]768203[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Why the laughing.....? I find that to be very inconsiderate.

[morostheos]

[quote name='ofpheritup' date='Oct 22 2005, 10:05 AM']I  think I may get "blasted" behind this one. But I am going to try any way.

Sin is sin, when we are  tempted we react or we don't. We choose to listen to Satan over God or we don't.

Homosexuality is a sin. I got that part. What I am saying is that. If that sin can supposedly be inherited and that is the excuse some people will use then what is to stop us from using that for every sin?

The great lie is "I couldn't help myself" (inherited). So liars, thieves, adulterers  all have an built in excuse.

What I am thinking is just because a man is attracted to a man doesn't mean he has to act on what he is feeling.  We are not animals. We have intellect, reasoning, self awareness and God will hold us responsible.

The only thing that Dr. Phil has said that I agree with is "You teach people how to treat you." Other than that Doc ain't got a clue.
[right][snapback]767204[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Well, if you think about, ALL sin is inherited, as we inherited original sin from Adam and Eve. That doesn't justify it.

[Socrates]

[quote name='dspen2005' date='Oct 23 2005, 11:05 AM']the attraction is neutral, in either case... the question of morality is in the state of acting these out...
[right][snapback]768114[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

The attraction (in both cases) cannot be considred "neutral" but must be considered intrinsically disordered. "Neutral" impies there is nothing wrong with this type of attraction. Acting on an intrinsically disordered passion is always sinful.
(The attraction itself is not a sin, but is an inclination towards something sinful and should never be acted on.)

[jasJis]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Oct 23 2005, 05:44 PM']Why the laughing.....?  I find that to be very inconsiderate. 
[right][snapback]768442[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]I find your need to state you taking offense as you taking yourself a little too seriously.

neway...

I kinda like Dr. Phil, but I have a big problem with his statement:

[quote]"[b]Dr. Phil:[/b] Homosexuality is not a learned behavior. A sexual orientation is inherited; you are wired that way." [/quote]

Edited October 24, 2005 by jasJis

[dspen2005]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Oct 23 2005, 10:37 PM']The attraction (in both cases) cannot be considred "neutral" but must be considered intrinsically disordered.  "Neutral" impies there is nothing wrong with this type of attraction.  Acting on an intrinsically disordered passion is always sinful.
(The attraction itself is not a sin, but is an inclination towards something sinful and should never be acted on.)
[right][snapback]768651[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

read the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 2357.

The homosexual act is "intrinsically disordered". When I stated that the attraction was neutral, I believe that I qualified it by saying, "morally" neutral -- in that there is nothing morally wrong with the attraction -- in the strict sense. The catechism does say that the inclination is "objectively disordered" -- which is different from your statement above.

[Cam42]

[quote name='jasJis' date='Oct 23 2005, 10:49 PM']I find your need to state you taking offense as you taking yourself a little too seriously. 
[right][snapback]768660[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

ORRRRRRRRRRRRRR.....it could be that I don't like being called a toady, and having people laugh about it.

I can and do take a joke as well as anyone. However, his statement was not a joke....and I don't appreciate you laughing about it.

[thessalonian]

Why does everything have to be one or the other. I believe there could inhereted tendancies that predispose one to it and then enviromental factors contribute to it. Even if it is inhereted that says nothing of the morality of it, though it may diminist culpability in some circumstances. That is left for God to decide. If someone has a gene that predisposes them to alcoholism does that make binge drinking okay? No. Should we not cure the cancer victim who has a genetic form of cancer? No. The grace of God can overcome even genetic homosexuality if there is such a thing I believe.

Blessings

[Proud2BCatholic139]

For me, I heard it does run in the family...

But that's just me.

[onathing1]

This topic has been studied by many scientists and the conclusion that they came to is that homosexuality is NOT inherited.

[infinitelord1]

I think that there is a reason behind every issue of morality. God doesnt just choose what is good and bad. Good is good for a reason. Bad is bad for a reason. I think 99% of you have no idea how hard it is to have SSA. Frankly, I dont see how homosexuality can be a predisposition in a world of free-will. Dont you think that it would contradict free-will? I really hope you are not thinking...."those who experience SSA attraction have the free-will choice to act or not to act on it". Let me ask you another question.........say someone comes to you and they seem to be down and out about something........they then tell you that they are struggling with SSA. What are you going to say to them to comfort them? would it be homosexuality is wrong and you should abstain? Do you think advice like this would really comfort someone? I assure you that it certainly doesnt solve their SSA. I imagine it must be pretty hard for men who are feminine.........im sure people constantly tell them they are gay whether it is in a compassionate manner or a bashing manner. Imagine how hard it is for that person to define themselves. You cant........most of you have no idea. Imagine struggling with your belief in god because of this issue and listening to other people try to say that it is some predisposition. So i would like to know how this predisposition corrolates with freewill.

[jasJis]

[quote name='infinitelord1' date='Oct 24 2005, 03:46 PM']I think that there is a reason behind every issue of morality. God doesnt just choose what is good and bad. Good is good for a reason. Bad is bad for a reason. I think 99% of you have no idea how hard it is to have SSA. Frankly, I dont see how homosexuality can be a predisposition in a world of free-will. Dont you think that it would contradict free-will? I really hope you are not thinking...."those who experience SSA attraction have the free-will choice to act or not to act on it". Let me ask you another question.........say someone comes to you and they seem to be down and out about something........they then tell you that they are struggling with SSA. What are you going to say to them to comfort them? would it be homosexuality is wrong and you should abstain? Do you think advice like this would really comfort someone? I assure you that it certainly doesnt solve their SSA. I imagine it must be pretty hard for men who are feminine.........im sure people constantly tell them they are gay whether it is in a compassionate manner or a bashing manner. Imagine how hard it is for that person to define themselves. You cant........most of you have no idea. Imagine struggling with your belief in god because of this issue and listening to other people try to say that it is some predisposition. So i would like to know how this predisposition corrolates with freewill.
[right][snapback]769347[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]It works in quite well with free will, because we trust in God, who is Perfect Mercy [b]and[/b] Perfect Justice. Free will is the idea that we chose Good or Bad and we recieve the relative Consequences of our actions. Superficially, a guy with SSA seems the odds are stacked against them, they struggle mightily to not flirt with the good looking guy waiter, while someone without SSA doesn't even get the faintest temptation. BUT... God knows who He graced with what. The act of the person with SSA not flirting, averting his eyes and thinking of other things would be incredibly valued by God and Judged by Him as being of Great Worth to Him. It is an act of will. Relatively, it may be equivalent to the married guy not flirting with his secretary when he and his wife have been having a rough few months during her pregnancy. God knows the level of temptation and rates our reaction accordingly. If the person w/SSA does flirt a bit and maybe has sex, do you think God would consider that as big as a betrayal as a man repeatedly cheating on his wife because he's the boss and can use his influence to bed his office help?

[ofpheritup]

[quote name='dspen2005' date='Oct 23 2005, 11:05 AM']the attraction is neutral, in either case... the question of morality is in the state of acting these out...
[right][snapback]768114[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

BINGO....