photosynthesis Posted October 23, 2005 Posted October 23, 2005 I got confirmed when I was 14. At the time I didn't quite believe in God. I think I may have been an agnostic. Now I do believe in God and all the teachings of His Church! but is such a confirmation valid?
termitescoming4u! Posted October 23, 2005 Posted October 23, 2005 well, I think it's valid, and especially more valid now you are a strong catholic. Also, the sacraments [Baptism, Confirmation...] cannot be administered twice once it's done because you cannot receive the Holy Spirit twice [once you have received it, it stays with you] . So, I don't think you can be reconfirmed again if that's what you are trying to find out.
photosynthesis Posted October 23, 2005 Author Posted October 23, 2005 [quote name='termitescoming4u!' date='Oct 23 2005, 02:02 PM']well, I think it's valid, and especially more valid now you are a strong catholic. Also, the sacraments [Baptism, Confirmation...] cannot be administered twice once it's done because you cannot receive the Holy Spirit twice [once you have received it, it stays with you] . So, I don't think you can be reconfirmed again if that's what you are trying to find out. [right][snapback]768179[/snapback][/right] [/quote] well, eiether I was confirmed or I wasn't. Either the sacrament truly happened, or it didn't. I'm not sure how sincere I really was at the time.
son_of_angels Posted October 23, 2005 Posted October 23, 2005 As long as the sacrament had the proper matter and form, like all the rest of the sacraments, it would be valid, however, like the Eucharist, its benefit would derive from the condition of the one receiving it. In other words, now that you believe and are more serious in desire for the Holy Spirit, this confirmation is now more effective than originally if you had no faith.
Era Might Posted October 23, 2005 Posted October 23, 2005 hmmmm. Tough question. The Sacrament of Reconciliation is one Sacrament that requires more than proper matter, form, and intent from the Priest. It requires personal repentance. Absent personal repentance, the Sacrament would be invalidated, even if everything else were done correctly. The Holy Eucharist is just the opposite. Even if the Priest didn't believe in it, it would be valid so long as the matter, form, and intent were correct. I'm not sure which category the Sacrament of Confirmation falls into. My hunch would be that it is still valid, but I'm not sure...
ForHimAlone Posted October 23, 2005 Posted October 23, 2005 From the Catholic Encyclopedia at Newadvent.com. This is what it says about reception in the state of mortal sin. I hope this helps: "They should also be in the state of grace; for the Holy Ghost is not given for the purpose of taking away sin but of conferring additional grace. This condition, however, refers only to lawful reception; the sacrament is validly received even by those in mortal sin."
ForHimAlone Posted October 23, 2005 Posted October 23, 2005 (edited) Oops... double post Edited October 23, 2005 by ForHimAlone
ForHimAlone Posted October 23, 2005 Posted October 23, 2005 (edited) Oops... triple post Edited October 23, 2005 by ForHimAlone
ForHimAlone Posted October 23, 2005 Posted October 23, 2005 (edited) My goodness, what did I do? Sorry, everyone! Edited October 23, 2005 by ForHimAlone
photosynthesis Posted October 23, 2005 Author Posted October 23, 2005 [quote name='Era Might' date='Oct 23 2005, 03:19 PM']hmmmm. Tough question. The Sacrament of Reconciliation is one Sacrament that requires more than proper matter, form, and intent from the Priest. It requires personal repentance. Absent personal repentance, the Sacrament would be invalidated, even if everything else were done correctly. The Holy Eucharist is just the opposite. Even if the Priest didn't believe in it, it would be valid so long as the matter, form, and intent were correct. I'm not sure which category the Sacrament of Confirmation falls into. My hunch would be that it is still valid, but I'm not sure... [right][snapback]768232[/snapback][/right] [/quote] [quote name='ForHimAlone' date='Oct 23 2005, 05:33 PM']From the Catholic Encyclopedia at Newadvent.com. This is what it says about reception in the state of mortal sin. I hope this helps: "They should also be in the state of grace; for the Holy Ghost is not given for the purpose of taking away sin but of conferring additional grace. This condition, however, refers only to lawful reception; the sacrament is validly received even by those in mortal sin." [right][snapback]768333[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I'm not really sure what the state of my soul was at the time. I don't really remember (probably because I didn't care or know of such things). but I'm not sure what my intent was.
Fides_et_Ratio Posted October 23, 2005 Posted October 23, 2005 Sacraments are dependent upon our physical presence... but not on us. They are dependent upon God. Otherwise, infant baptisms would be invalid as well.
tojo Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 The sacraments work "ex opere operato," which basically means because they do, lol. As was previously said, the only sacrament to be rendered "ineffective" even when performed properly, due to faith issues, is reconciliation. Personally, I believe it is mostly because it is a mortal sin to go to confession without intending to truly repent. Going to confession in such a stae of mind just adds more mortal sin, when it is meant to take it away. The other sacraments, properly performed, are valid.
toledo_jesus Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 Perhaps, you can look at your conversion as eventual evidence of the work of the Holy Spirit...which you received at your Confirmation.
termitescoming4u! Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 [quote name='son_of_angels' date='Oct 23 2005, 01:44 PM']As long as the sacrament had the proper matter and form, like all the rest of the sacraments, it would be valid, however, like the Eucharist, its benefit would derive from the condition of the one receiving it. In other words, now that you believe and are more serious in desire for the Holy Spirit, this confirmation is now more effective than originally if you had no faith. [right][snapback]768211[/snapback][/right] [/quote] EXACTLY. That's what I meant to say, but u said it BEST. thanks.
termitescoming4u! Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 [quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' date='Oct 23 2005, 05:26 PM']Sacraments are dependent upon our physical presence... but not on us. They are dependent upon God. Otherwise, infant baptisms would be invalid as well. [right][snapback]768427[/snapback][/right] [/quote] That's true too. But does that also apply to Holy Communion? I think you have to understand what you are receiving before you recieve the graces that come with receiving the Eucharist. Am I wrong?
tojo Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 [quote name='termitescoming4u!' date='Oct 24 2005, 03:25 PM']That's true too. But does that also apply to Holy Communion? I think you have to understand what you are receiving before you recieve the graces that come with receiving the Eucharist. Am I wrong? [right][snapback]769268[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I think so, but I also think you receive more grace when you understand what you are receiving.
Fides_et_Ratio Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 [quote name='termitescoming4u!' date='Oct 24 2005, 03:25 PM']That's true too. But does that also apply to Holy Communion? I think you have to understand what you are receiving before you recieve the graces that come with receiving the Eucharist. Am I wrong? [right][snapback]769268[/snapback][/right] [/quote] It depends. An honestly ignorant person would not be deprived the grace of Holy Communion. HOWEVER, a practicing and devout Catholic who receives Holy Communion with understanding would receive MORE grace through their understanding. It's common practice in the USA to do first communion around age 7 or 8, and many Eastern-rite Catholics give Holy Communion to infants... are they deprived of grace because they cannot understand? No, I don't think it would be proper to say that; but nor do they receive the abundance of grace that comes through understanding.
photosynthesis Posted October 24, 2005 Author Posted October 24, 2005 [quote name='tomasio127' date='Oct 24 2005, 03:30 PM']I think so, but I also think you receive more grace when you understand what you are receiving. [right][snapback]769273[/snapback][/right] [/quote] [quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' date='Oct 24 2005, 03:41 PM']It depends. An honestly ignorant person would not be deprived the grace of Holy Communion. HOWEVER, a practicing and devout Catholic who receives Holy Communion with understanding would receive MORE grace through their understanding. It's common practice in the USA to do first communion around age 7 or 8, and many Eastern-rite Catholics give Holy Communion to infants... are they deprived of grace because they cannot understand? No, I don't think it would be proper to say that; but nor do they receive the abundance of grace that comes through understanding. [right][snapback]769284[/snapback][/right] [/quote] oh man.. so i missed out? shoot. "too late have I loved thee.."
Fides_et_Ratio Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 [quote name='photosynthesis' date='Oct 24 2005, 04:13 PM'] oh man.. so i missed out? shoot. "too late have I loved thee.." [right][snapback]769325[/snapback][/right] [/quote] No, a person is not deprived of grace without willful rejection. You have the opportunity to embrace the grace of your Confirmation now. It's not as though God only gives us one shot (thankfully!), the grace is always there being offered, we just have to accept it. You were confirmed. You have received the gift of the Holy Spirit (and He ain't a one time gift!)... you can still experience the graces of your Confirmation.
son_of_angels Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 I should point out that the principle of proper matter and form seems to ALSO apply to the Sacrament of Reconciliation. The matter is a contrite soul with a priest given the proper faculties to hear confession from the Bishop. The form is the prescribed formulae for absolution and faithful completion of the penance. As long as either of these are in place Reconciliation is valid. Likewise as long as matter and form are completed in any of the other sacraments, that sacrament is wholly valid.
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