Guest Sword Posted October 27, 2005 Posted October 27, 2005 Hi all....and hope you are all in good health.. 42 year old Protestant here from Northern ireland.......what"s your honest opinions of us??....heritics?....lost "brothers" ??....do we live by the Bible too much??? Sword
toledo_jesus Posted October 27, 2005 Posted October 27, 2005 [quote name='Sword' date='Oct 27 2005, 04:47 PM']Hi all....and hope you are all in good health.. 42 year old Protestant here from Northern ireland.......what"s your honest opinions of us??....heritics?....lost "brothers" ??....do we live by the Bible too much??? Sword [right][snapback]772210[/snapback][/right] [/quote] closer to lost brothers, I suppose. We recognize you have snippets of the truth, but by rejecting Catholic Tradition you lose quite a bit of essential Christianity not contained in the Bible. It's unfortunate, but hopefully we'll all be reunited some day. Welcome to Phatmass! You'll find most people here quite eager to have civil conversations with you.
Era Might Posted October 27, 2005 Posted October 27, 2005 (edited) [quote]Even in the beginnings of this one and only Church of God there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly condemned. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions made their appearance and quite large communities came to be separated from full communion with the Catholic Church-for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame. The children who are born into these Communities and who grow up believing in Christ cannot be accused of the sin involved in the separation, and the Catholic Church embraces upon them as brothers, with respect and affection. For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect. The differences that exist in varying degrees between them and the Catholic Church-whether in doctrine and sometimes in discipline, or concerning the structure of the Church-do indeed create many obstacles, sometimes serious ones, to full ecclesiastical communion. The ecumenical movement is striving to overcome these obstacles. But even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ's body, and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church. --Second Vatican Ecumenical Council, Decree on Ecumenism "Unitatis Redintegratio", #3[/quote] This is the only opinion that matters. Edited October 27, 2005 by Era Might
Myles Domini Posted October 27, 2005 Posted October 27, 2005 First point, my friend, nobody can live by the Bible too much only too little. For the Bible is the ultimate witness of the Traditions handed to us and clearly alludes to the Traditions not written therein e.g. John 20: 30; 2 Thessalonians 2:15; 1 Timothy 3:15. Heard of [url="http://www.scotthahn.com/"]Dr Scott Hahn[/url]? The deeper you go into the Bible the more Catholic it becomes. Rather than being too scriptural we'd say Protestants on the whole aren't Catholic enough! Heretic is a strong word with many negative connotations hence it is not widely used. In the very technical sense its applicable but in practice Era's post covers how Catholics view our seperated brethren. Its not about you being wrong, all that is right in Protestantism is also found in Catholicism, its about trying to share with you what we feel you're missing out on: the fullness of truth. Its not because we hate you, which might not always be apparent in Northern Ireland, but because we love you that we want to share our teachings with you. Have a listen to this: [url="http://www.ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/dload1.asp?rafile=iq_708.ra&source=frmselectseries.asp&seriesID=&T1=The%20Catholic%20gospel"]The Catholic gospel by Dr Scott Hahn[/url]
Fidei Defensor Posted October 27, 2005 Posted October 27, 2005 We view you as our brothers and sisters in Christ. If you believe the Nicene Creed, and are baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, then you are a member of the Body of Christ. However, you faith is not complete, but you are still a member of the Body.
cmotherofpirl Posted October 27, 2005 Posted October 27, 2005 (edited) [quote name='Sword' date='Oct 27 2005, 04:47 PM']Hi all....and hope you are all in good health.. 42 year old Protestant here from Northern ireland.......what"s your honest opinions of us??....heritics?....lost "brothers" ??....do we live by the Bible too much??? Sword [right][snapback]772210[/snapback][/right] [/quote] It would depend on what branch of the family tree you are on and when your group separated from the Church. There are hundreds of different groups out there each with a small bit of the truth. But to get the whole enchilada you must come home to the Church. 1 Tiim 3:15 if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth. Welcome to the phatmass phamily Edited October 27, 2005 by cmotherofpirl
ofpheritup Posted October 28, 2005 Posted October 28, 2005 (edited) [quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Oct 27 2005, 03:53 PM'] Welcome to Phatmass! You'll find most people here quite eager to have civil conversations with you. [right][snapback]772218[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Edited October 28, 2005 by ofpheritup
Cow of Shame Posted October 29, 2005 Posted October 29, 2005 [quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Oct 27 2005, 03:53 PM']You'll find most people here quite eager to have civil conversations with you. [right][snapback]772218[/snapback][/right] [/quote] and some eager to have uncivil conversations with you...
MC Just Posted October 29, 2005 Posted October 29, 2005 [quote name='Era Might' date='Oct 27 2005, 04:00 PM']This is the only opinion that matters. [right][snapback]772229[/snapback][/right] [/quote] On Point.
Guest Sword Posted October 30, 2005 Posted October 30, 2005 Well, for a start, thanks for the warm welcome!!... ..living here in Northern Ireland has obviously got me interested in what the "Other side" believes...I work, and socialize with Rc catholics...they are just the same as myself.......but....one thing that does strike me.....the RC church seems to have a unrelenting "grasp" of it"s members.....ie...if they even think about reading the gospel for themselves.....they are immediately put off.......why????.....why does the RC Church not like their members reading the bible for themselves???? And why all the prayers to the "Queen of Heaven".......this is a name used by pagens centuries ago???? respectfully, Sword
StColette Posted October 30, 2005 Posted October 30, 2005 [quote name='Sword' date='Oct 30 2005, 03:39 PM']...ie...if they even think about reading the gospel for themselves.....they are immediately put off.......why????.....why does the RC Church not like their members reading the bible for themselves???? respectfully, Sword [right][snapback]774171[/snapback][/right] [/quote] hehe sry I missed your introduction before Sword, but welcome to the phorum As for this question that you asked. Who told you that the Catholic Church doesn't like their members to read the Bible? According to my Priest, I'm supposed to read the Bible every day. My Dad was raised in a very strict Catholic home and he was taught to read the Bible everyday as well. As were many of the other Catholics that are on this board. I promise that we are not restricted from reading the Bible God Bless, Jen
zabbazooey Posted October 30, 2005 Posted October 30, 2005 [quote]the RC church seems to have a unrelenting "grasp" of it"s members.....ie...if they even think about reading the gospel for themselves.....they are immediately put off.......why????.....why does the RC Church not like their members reading the bible for themselves???? [/quote] Where did you get this information from?
Guest Sword Posted October 30, 2005 Posted October 30, 2005 It"s history... ...during the dark ages....the Inquisition etc...when thousands of people were burned to death for standing by the Gospel... ...even now don"t you use the "catachism"[ spelling??]....more so than the Bible?..... Sword
avemaria40 Posted October 30, 2005 Posted October 30, 2005 (edited) not true, btw, the catechism is based on the teachings of the Bible, it even gives verses in the Bible on every page for everything that is in it. We do read the Bible for ourselves but we trust in the Church's authority for clarification to make sure we are all on the same page as far as understanding goes. That way, we can stay unified, as the Body of Christ was meant to be, and btw, there were Inquisitions that killed Catholics as well as Protestants, such as the English Inquisition of Queen Elizabeth's time. and as for calling Mary the Queen of Heaven, it has more to do with the fact that Christ honored and respected her as His Mother throughout His life. If He truly became one of us and showed us how to live, wouldn't He honor His own Mother, as God called us to honor ours? And what is the Mother of a King but a Queen? Also, doesn't one of the Psalms say, "The Queen stands, at your right hand, arrayed in gold"? Who could the Queen of Heaven be, but Mary? Edited October 30, 2005 by avemaria40
peach_cube Posted October 30, 2005 Posted October 30, 2005 The closest the Church has come to a prohibition on bible reading is a ban on unauthorized versions and translations (for they could be in error). The Church itself embraces and encourages reading the bible, the famous "Vulgate" was translated by St. Jerome was written for the common people of the time (vulgus) so that the scripture could be better understood. The Catechism is by no means a replacement for the Bible. It is more of a summary of what Catholics believe and why. You may be directed to it by Catholics, if you would want to know what Catholics believe.
StColette Posted October 30, 2005 Posted October 30, 2005 [quote name='Sword' date='Oct 30 2005, 03:51 PM']It"s history... ...during the dark ages....the Inquisition etc...when thousands of people were burned to death for standing by the Gospel... ...even now don"t you use the "catachism"[ spelling??]....more so than the Bible?..... Sword [right][snapback]774185[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Try reading this [url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=14855"]http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=14855[/url]
Thy Geekdom Come Posted October 30, 2005 Posted October 30, 2005 [quote name='Sword' date='Oct 30 2005, 04:51 PM']It"s history... ...during the dark ages....the Inquisition etc...when thousands of people were burned to death for standing by the Gospel... ...even now don"t you use the "catachism"[ spelling??]....more so than the Bible?..... Sword [right][snapback]774185[/snapback][/right] [/quote] If you read the Catechism, it states itself that Scripture and Tradition are equal. You can't have one without the other. Oh, and no...we use the Bible everyday...there are two readings in every weekday Mass and three in every Sunday Mass. If you go to Sunday Mass every Sunday for three years, you will hear almost every passage from the Bible, complete with a lesson on the application of those passages to life (homilies). We see that in the Bible, since St. Paul tells the Church to stick with the Scriptures as well as the oral Tradition handed down. Besides, as for the part with the Church forbidding people to read the Gospel, it's silly. Books weren't available for mass distribution until the printing press, a Catholic invention. Before that, they cost too much to make for the average Joe. This expense caused two things: 1. They were too expensive to loan out and were often not read by common parishioners, not because the Church didn't want them to read the Bible, but because they were too expensive to pass around. 2. Why on earth would the Church bother translating into various languages when the only people who could afford Bibles could speak Latin anyway? However, the Church did make as many copies of the Bible as it could, by hand, so that at least the clergy could be educated in it and thus pass it on to the faithful by voice and in catechetical (derived from the word of St. Paul-"katechein" which he uses to describe Christian education) lessons.
Cam42 Posted October 30, 2005 Posted October 30, 2005 [quote name='Sword' date='Oct 30 2005, 03:51 PM']It"s history... ...during the dark ages....the Inquisition etc...when thousands of people were burned to death for standing by the Gospel... ...even now don"t you use the "catachism"[ spelling??]....more so than the Bible?..... Sword [right][snapback]774185[/snapback][/right] [/quote] That's a misconception....about the dark ages...... And the Catechism. Did you know that 97% of the Bible is read at Mass in the Liturgy of the Word, over a 3 year period? It's true. Did you know that every aspect of the Mass and the Sacraments can be backed up by Scripture? It's true. Did you know that the Bible came from the Catholic Church, not the other way round? It's true. Did you know that we have a tradition of prayer within the Catholic Church that is called [i]lectio divina[/i]? Daily reading of Scripture. It's true. Did you know that we have what is called the Divine Office or Liturgy of the Hours, where all 150 Psalms are read? It's true. Did you know that nowhere in the Bible does it say, "Read the Bible?" It's true. Just thought I would dispell some myths.....and welcome you to the board. Wanna learn more? If you do, [url="http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s1c2a3.htm"]start here.[/url] Again, welcome to the board.....and I hope to see ya around. God Bless.
ofpheritup Posted October 31, 2005 Posted October 31, 2005 [quote name='Sword' date='Oct 30 2005, 03:39 PM'].. .......but....one thing that does strike me.....the RC church seems to have a unrelenting "grasp" of it"s members.....ie...if they even think about reading the gospel for themselves.....they are immediately put off.......why????.....why does the RC Church not like their members reading the bible for themselves???? [right][snapback]774171[/snapback][/right] [/quote] HELLO.....I am 48 years old. Like this is news. I have NEVER in my life been told that I could not read the Bible. We were encouraged to read it. Today I have two Bibles. And a copy of the New Testament that I carry in my purse. Whenever I have to go somewhere and possibly wait I pull out the NT and read. You know the old expression "Don't judge a book by its cover." I think the same applies here because a few people are not reading the Bible (for whatever reason) don't judge the whole Church by that standard. It may be true that some priests or nuns are telling people they shouldn't read the Bible. But that is not ROME speaking. Discern the difference.
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