Help! Need advice

[annie]

Jasjis-

I did appear to stop the conversation in my postbut that was because I could not type all of that! My focus was not necessarily pregnancy--she is quite aware from other convos about that. It is the stuff between holding hands and intercourse (y'know, the stuff Bill Clinton thinks is NOT sex) that I focused on--and tried to emphasize it is morally wrong, but most importantly WHY. I asked her how she would feel if I were having an affair (her dad and I are happily married 18 yrs) and hey, even if it wasn't intercourse, how would she feel if I, say, made out with another man, or ahem, all that stuff in between, if you catch my drift, and it made her think-- shocked her so to speak, and she finally said, "ok I know what you are getting at"
couple that with the well-written 'pure love' pamphlet as back up

I do see what you mean- I would never just hand her a pamphlet, that is so cheesy and phony---but I pre-determined she would go on 'full tilt' with the discussion, and had the pamphlet as a backup to further supplement.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='annie' date='Oct 29 2005, 11:15 PM']I asked her how she would feel if I were having an affair (her dad and I are happily married 18 yrs) and hey, even if it wasn't intercourse, how would she feel if I, say, made out with another man, or ahem, all that stuff in between, if you catch my drift, and it made her think-- shocked her so to speak, and she finally said, "ok I know what you are getting at"
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That's an interesting approach... as someone with divorced parents, i am utterly repulsed by the idea of my parents having relations with people who aren't my biological parents. it GROSSES me OUT.... i read somewhere that people have a natural aversion to the idea of their parents having relations with other people... probably because we were made to mate for life!

[toledo_jesus]

don't feel bad about snooping. as a parent, you are entitled to it. I wish my mom and dad had paid more attention to what I was up to...

[jiyoung]

That is an absolutely brilliant way to put it.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Oct 30 2005, 12:28 AM']don't feel bad about snooping.  as a parent, you are entitled to it.  I wish my mom and dad had paid more attention to what I was up to...
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I think it's wrong for a parent to snoop through her adolescent daughter's things without sufficient reason (i.e. life-death situations). Snooping is a sign that the parent doesn't trust her own child, and this often results in the child being suspicious of the parents' motives. Now, often the case is that the child cannot be trusted (i.e. if she is exhibiting signs of being suicidal, cutting herself, purging, etc). Unless it is a situation where snooping could potentially save the child's life, I don't think it is constructive.

Snooping often shows a fear of confrontation on the parents behalf. It's easier to snoop through a child's schoolbooks looking at his/her grades than to have a real conversation with the child about school. It's easier to snoop through a 16-year old girls' diary and read all about her personal life than to have a heart-to-heart talk. It is my belief that snooping and fruitful family relationships do not exist at the same time.

[jiyoung]

I would really rather my parents be open about it than snoop. I never had to deal with snooping though because morally I was an ideal child (hehe) as far as they knew. However, I know that my parents' first reaction to any sort of bad behavior (tattoos, drugs, alcohol, sex, etc) would be to kick me out and disown me (dad) or to either ground me indefinitely or to have a tearful discussion with me (mom). I prefer the discussions because she tries to find out what's behind my behavior--Korean culture dictates that the successes and failures of a child are all dependent on their upbringing by their parents. If I do something wrong, then she must've done something wrong. But she never snoops through my things; she only ever looks in my room if she needs something. She refuses to clean my room because it's so dirty...heh. I think I would stop trusting her though if she started snooping--but my relationship with my mom has stayed strong because I can talk to her.

I think it might be a good idea to make amends with your daughter directly about the snooping--if she knows how badly you feel about it and how you're trying to make an effort to stop, and how if she opened up to you, you would have no reason to snoop, she'll probably be more open to you. It's probably because that way, you're also being open to her, so she'll be more open to you.

[Donna]

Annie, re: the therapy...ya know, it could also be that the family is stressed! I mean, why the certain dynamic happens, or came to be. The good thing about it is the communication which individuals may increase in.

Younger ppl, indiscriminate snooping of course can injure.

But some children (those who have hidden cutting and other things come to mind) can sometimes NEVER be pinned down for an honest answer as to how they're doing in school, etc;

Sometimes the child is slippery-er than an eel; and the parents work hard tracking down teachers and prinicipals and friends and parents of friends...with no other motive than to try to find out the very basics of Jr's life (like is Jr keeping up on schoolwork); sometimes the parents want nothing more than to not have to go to ridiculous lengths for very simple information.

Parents can actually love the child and not be much dysfunctional.

Edited October 30, 2005 by Donna

[DancesforLove]

Well you shouldn't have to snoop to find out what your daughter is doing. And you shouldn't have snooped, you need to work with her and try to parent her in a way so that she can make a good decision without you having to make it for her. You can't force her to do it, and you shouldn't have to. You just need to work on your relationship with her and her morals to correct the situation.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Oct 29 2005, 10:02 PM']Psychologists love to use that over-complicated, long-winded, psycho-jargon!  It's part of the job description. 
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Helpful retort Soc

If the mind was an easy thing to understand, it would be easy to explain how it works.

[ofpheritup]

It is tough being a parent. IT IS TOUGH BEING THE PARENT OF A TEENAGER. They seem "to want all the perks of life with none of the responsibilty." Sheesh.

I don't know what to advise, you know what would be better received by your daughter than we do. So for that I am praying for you.

What really threw me off was the fact that your daughter is 16 and you are making her bed. Why? I don't see it. My mother never made my bed.

[jasJis]

[quote name='annie' date='Oct 29 2005, 10:15 PM']Jasjis-

I did appear to stop the conversation in my postbut that was because I could not type all of that! My focus was not necessarily pregnancy--she is quite aware from other convos about that.  It is the stuff between holding hands and intercourse (y'know, the stuff Bill Clinton thinks is NOT sex) that I focused on--and tried to emphasize it is morally wrong, but most importantly WHY.  I asked her how she would feel if I were having an affair (her dad and I are happily married 18 yrs) and hey, even if it wasn't intercourse, how would she feel if I, say, made out with another man, or ahem, all that stuff in between, if you catch my drift, and it made her think-- shocked her so to speak, and she finally said, "ok I know what you are getting at"
couple that with the well-written 'pure love' pamphlet as back up

I do see what you mean- I would never just hand her a pamphlet, that is so cheesy and phony---but I pre-determined she would go on 'full tilt' with the discussion, and had the pamphlet as a backup to further supplement.
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[/quote]Oh. I get you. I like that approach. Next time a convo comes up with my daughters, I'm going to ask how they would feel when they are ready to make a life committment, how it would be sharing past sexual history (theirs and their partners) and living with that, then knowing their history and them having to deal with teens.
Thanks for the tip. I tell my kids all the time that parents trade tips and hints. They NEVER say 'all the other parents allow that' because they know we can come up w/ 3 other parents that don't.

[Era Might]

Not sure what you should do. Even if you do try to keep an eye on her, she'll find a way to do what she wants to do. My mother was always on the lookout for evidence that me or my brother were puffing the magic dragon. She could smell it on someone a mile away. But, we found ways to get around her.

Kids can be clever. I knew someone growing up who was a few years older than me (we played little league together), and his mother was OBSESSIVE. Like he couldn't even walk around the block without her permission. Fascism isn't a good trait for a parent. I guess it's a tightrope act trying to be a good parent while accepting the role of free will in life. Trying to provide a good moral witness is probably the best gift you can give; it's something they will be able to fall back on when they look themselves in the mirror. It beats trying to put a collar around their neck, which they can easily shed when they turn 18.

Edited October 30, 2005 by Era Might

[cmotherofpirl]

I do not generally snoop in my childrens rooms. If I am in their room collecting laundry or dropping off clean clothes and they leave stuff out I glance over it. Privacy is not a real issue here, because everybody is in and out of everyone else's room all day and night long, and nobody here can keep a secret for more than 5 minutes anyway.
However, IF I thought my kids were engaging in any seriously harmful activity, I would have absolutely no qualms going thru anything in their possession. My responsibilty for their health and safety overrides any percieved notions of privacy in my household. I am very upfront about this, and if I think there is something I should know I consult the other kids first and then I have a discussion with the kid in question.
Their rights are secondary to my responsibilites as the parent.

Edited October 30, 2005 by cmotherofpirl

[thessalonian]

[quote name='thessalonian' date='Oct 29 2005, 12:34 PM']You really need to have your teenagers watch videos by Pam Stenzel.  She lays out the facts about the dangers of pre-marital sex.  I know it has opened our two teenage boys eyes.  The one was talking to every girl he could for a while.  Now he is less focused on that and more on what he wants to do with his life.  What she has to say should help your daughters situation as well.  She hits pretty hard about boys who want pre-marital sex from girls.

[url="http://www.pamstenzel.com/"]http://www.pamstenzel.com/[/url]
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Annie,

Just wanted to make sure you saw this. I highly recommend her videos. She tells it straght. It seems a bit frank but kids need to hear what they are up against if they don't control their passions.

[Maria]

The situation is rather different with my family -- there are ten children, 3 in each room, and so no one expects much privacy (except that I really don't want people reading what I'm writing, esp. when I'm not finished and not looking for advice, because critical advice will always be offered in plenty, and I'd often rather work it out myself). Perhaps also because of the large family situation, my mom isn't prying at all. And she trusts us enormously (but if we're out late, she'll worry if she doesn't know where we are). On the other hand, I don't think there's that much of a communication problem either. In a real sense we're more partners in trying to make the house work than suspicious authority figure vs. rebelious off-spring. Not buddies, but partners. And communication is a biggy in our family anyway, and doesn't exactly need to be encouraged. I don't talk to my mom about everything, but she trust us anyway. [/unstructured paragraph]

[annie]

I was gathering old sheets, I do not make their beds!

Thank you all for the input. We see the therapist on Wed, but that is for the second dtr. Hope to start family therapy soon after initial appt.

Realize the snooping is wrong, have vowed to stop. Wholeheartedly. Realize I had a traumatic childhood, learned not to trust. For some reason trust hubby completely, find it hard to trust kids as they have lied before. Fear their serious mistakes, get over zealous about the monitoring, and that has to stop.

You all have been so helpful! Thank you from the bottom of my heart, and I will keep you posted as to our progress..

[Cow of Shame]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Oct 30 2005, 09:21 AM']Their rights are secondary to my responsibilites as the parent.
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sounds good here

[Theoketos]

[quote name='Cow of Shame' date='Oct 30 2005, 11:32 PM']sounds good here
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This from some one who carries around a hamster named boo.

[Cow of Shame]

...with a bowler. Boo is quite proud.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Oct 30 2005, 09:21 AM']Their rights are secondary to my responsibilites as the parent.
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I'd like to second what cmom says. And Annie, I'd like to give you some backup. Maybe I was raised in a different environment than many here, but when I was growing up, [i]the inmates did not rule the asylum[/i], so to speak. YOU are the parent, and even if you were snooping, in this case, so what? Your daughter has a history of bulimia and a cutting, so that in itself gives you the right and the duty to, how shall I say, "maintain extra vigilance". Don't let any la-la therapist try to make you feel guilty about that.

BTW, I notice that you are in the Chicago suburbs; I'm on the NW side myself, right on the Elmwood Park border.

Also, try calling Dr. Ray Guarendi on "The Doctor is in" on Relevant Radio (AM 820 in Chicago).