Jaime Posted November 7, 2005 Posted November 7, 2005 [quote name='qfnol31' date='Nov 6 2005, 09:54 PM']Because it's not the Church. [right][snapback]780724[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Qfnol The Holy See is the Church.
Socrates Posted November 7, 2005 Posted November 7, 2005 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Nov 6 2005, 09:53 PM']And if the Holy See has declared that it should be abolished Ratzinger is a part of the Holy See It is a matter of morals Where's the problem? Why would you, Al and others argue against the Holy See? [right][snapback]780721[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Why may Catholics have a legitimate diversity of opinion on this issue? No one is even addressing this statement, and until someone does, I think this debate is going nowhere.
qfnol31 Posted November 7, 2005 Posted November 7, 2005 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Nov 6 2005, 09:56 PM']What question am I supposed to answer? [right][snapback]780727[/snapback][/right] [/quote] What part of specific governments and their abilities falls under morals?
Jaime Posted November 7, 2005 Posted November 7, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Nov 6 2005, 09:57 PM']Why may Catholics have a legitimate diversity of opinion on this issue? No one is even addressing this statement, and until someone does, I think this debate is going nowhere. [right][snapback]780733[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Well unless you ignore where Camster expanded upon Ratzinger's quote and the context it was given. Its just on the last page Soc.
Cam42 Posted November 7, 2005 Posted November 7, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Nov 6 2005, 09:47 PM']Obviously, it's an issue of morality. It is not defining dogma. If it was, there would be not "legitimate diversity of opinion" on this issue. No one has ever explained how the quote I gave [b]is[/b] to be properly interpreted - I guess we're just not supposed to question Cam's authority. [right][snapback]780709[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Oh, would you please stop with that.....you are being childish, as is anyone who uses that, sad, sad lineage. GAH!!!!! Nice answer for a three year old. Notice that you people are the only one's who hold this line. It is ad hominem and it is stupid. Please stop and show me a modicum of respect. I respect you.....I don't slander your name, because I don't agree with your position, I let the proof do the talking, not the whining..... GROW UP!!!!! ALL OF YOU!!!!!! With that being said, I am out......that is on the same level as LittleLes.
Jaime Posted November 7, 2005 Posted November 7, 2005 [quote name='qfnol31' date='Nov 6 2005, 09:58 PM']What part of specific governments and their abilities falls under morals? [right][snapback]780737[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I guess I didn't answer it because I don't know what you mean
qfnol31 Posted November 7, 2005 Posted November 7, 2005 [quote name='Cam42' date='Nov 6 2005, 10:04 PM']Oh, would you please stop with that.....you are being childish, as is anyone who uses that, sad, sad lineage. GAH!!!!! Nice answer for a three year old. Notice that you people are the only one's who hold this line. It is ad hominem and it is stupid. Please stop and show me a modicum of respect. I respect you.....I don't slander your name, because I don't agree with your position, I let the proof do the talking, not the whining..... GROW UP!!!!! ALL OF YOU!!!!!! With that being said, I am out......children. [right][snapback]780751[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I didn't say anything.
qfnol31 Posted November 7, 2005 Posted November 7, 2005 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Nov 6 2005, 10:04 PM']I guess I didn't answer it because I don't know what you mean [right][snapback]780752[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Well, what part of how the governmental systems, such as their judicial system, falls under morals as we're discussing it?
Jaime Posted November 7, 2005 Posted November 7, 2005 When the issue at hand is a moral one? Q I may be dim on this one bud. I don't know where you're going with this
qfnol31 Posted November 7, 2005 Posted November 7, 2005 I'm trying to figure out what part of the ability of a government, specifically dealing with the punishment of criminals, falls under the heading "morals."
Jaime Posted November 7, 2005 Posted November 7, 2005 [quote name='qfnol31' date='Nov 6 2005, 10:16 PM']I'm trying to figure out what part of the ability of a government, specifically dealing with the punishment of criminals, falls under the heading "morals." [right][snapback]780772[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Are you trying to argue that governments ability to govern properly (in the area of incarceration and capital punishment) does not fall under the pervue of the Catholic Church?
qfnol31 Posted November 7, 2005 Posted November 7, 2005 Yes. Not considering what they should do with that ability or what they should do to have more capacity, but their current capacity. Would you agree with that?
Jaime Posted November 7, 2005 Posted November 7, 2005 [quote name='qfnol31' date='Nov 6 2005, 10:32 PM']Yes. Not considering what they should do with that ability or what they should do to have more capacity, but their current capacity. Would you agree with that? [right][snapback]780795[/snapback][/right] [/quote] No I don't. The Church defines what is moral and we as Catholics defend it. Any government that declares something to be legal (and contrary to Catholic teaching) needs to be corrected, It is our duty to help in that correction. Would you agree with that?
qfnol31 Posted November 7, 2005 Posted November 7, 2005 Yes, but that wasn't what I asked. I just asked about the capacity.
qfnol31 Posted November 7, 2005 Posted November 7, 2005 What I meant is for that to be taken in context. Can the Church define the capacity of any nation regarding anything?
Jaime Posted November 7, 2005 Posted November 7, 2005 I'm still lost Q The Church defines faith and morals. If a government is legislating on these topics, we are called to adhere to the teachings of the Church. But you know that so I don't know what you're getting at bud
qfnol31 Posted November 7, 2005 Posted November 7, 2005 Well, the Catechism mentions something else that commonly gets overlooked in these conversations. It makes a comment about the capacity of every government in the world, would you agree? Do you know what I'm talking about?
Jaime Posted November 7, 2005 Posted November 7, 2005 Are you referring to this in the Catechism? [quote]1898 Every human community needs an authority to govern it. The foundation of such authority lies in human nature. It is necessary for the unity of the state. Its role is to ensure as far as possible the common good of the society. 1899 The authority required by the moral order derives from God: "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment."[/quote]
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