Ways in which I am stupid

[jezic]

hmm i have never heard of anything like this.

[philothea]

[quote name='theculturewarrior' date='Nov 7 2005, 05:50 PM']Would you like suggestions? I'm the world's worst at giving unsolicited advice.
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Well...................? I'm waiting!

Or did I turn out to be too weird?

[journeyman]

how can I follow a question like that?

of course you are, but why would I let a little thing like your being a refugee from another dimension get in the way of manipulating your psyche?

the pain is the pain of separation - you were called to religious orders, but didn't answer - ran in the other direction, as fast as you could - but your very cell structure knows you are supposed to be enclosed in a cloister somewhere, doing nothing but praying 24-7-365 . . . just being in the presence satisfies the basic cell structures desires to be in the presence - but it can't communicate this to your intellect . . . so you're left befuddled

since my ability to read emotions and feelings is virtually non-existent, and my psycho-babble skills are purely verbal, if this has the slightest bearing on your reality, I apologize in advance for potentially being seen as making fun of a failed vocation - that is not my intent - you're a good person, and if you're hurting in some way, I'd like to help . . . have you hung out in a cathedral long enough that one of the priests stops by and asks what it is you're doing there ??

[philothea]

[quote name='journeyman' date='Nov 8 2005, 10:54 PM']how can I follow a question like that?

of course you are, but why would I let a little thing like your being a refugee from another dimension get in the way of manipulating your psyche?
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You're just jealous. :

[quote name='journeyman' date='Nov 8 2005, 10:54 PM']the pain is the pain of separation - you were called to religious orders, but didn't answer - ran in the other direction, as fast as you could - but your very cell structure knows you are supposed to be enclosed in a cloister somewhere, doing nothing but praying 24-7-365 . . . just being in the presence satisfies the basic cell structures desires to be in the presence - but it can't communicate this to your intellect . . . so you're left befuddled

since my ability to read emotions and feelings is virtually non-existent, and my psycho-babble skills are purely verbal, if this has the slightest bearing on your reality, I apologize in advance for potentially being seen as making fun of a failed vocation - that is not my intent - you're a good person, and if you're hurting in some way, I'd like to help . . . have you hung out in a cathedral long enough that one of the priests stops by and asks what it is you're doing there ??
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I dunno, your guess is as good as any. Though a lost vocation would really be kind of unreasonable since I wasn't even baptized until I was already married!

Not that unreasonable would surprise me in the slightest.

I haven't had the opportunity to prominently hang out where a priest might ask me what my problem is since I've been having this problem. Of course, that is part of the problem...

I'm sensing that the only answer is to just deal with it.

[journeyman]

[quote name='philothea' date='Nov 9 2005, 12:47 AM']You're just jealous.  :

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I wasn't until I saw your post on open mic

[Birgitta Noel]

Ok, I'm supposed to be working, but here's my gut reaction to your initial post....

This is all meant to be speculation, not accusation, ok?

1) You're avoiding God. It's like when you really need to talk to a close friend about something that's bugging you so you'll talk about everything else but that.

2) Somewhere inside you know you're avoiding God so when you do start to pray you stop cause you feel somewhat guilty.

3) You're either holding onto something (emotional?) that you don't want to let go of, like a sinful habit, or holding on to something that you're afraid to hand over to God and trust, ie a problem.

4) Solution? Ummm, not sure. Go on retreat maybe. Before that though just start praying. Do it every am. Say a rosary. If you can't find an open Church go outside and take your rosary and go for a walk. Imagine that by taking up your rosary you are taking up the hand of Mary and ask her to lead you to her Son.

5) I know you're in Central IL. Can you get away for a few days? I could set you up with the Sisters of St. John, and you'd have a priest (or three or four) at your disposal for confession, mass, adoration, liturgy of the hours, etc. They're located just outside of Peoria in Princeville, IL.

6) You're not weird, you sound like me!

7) There was more, but now it escapes me. PM/IM me if you need to chat, I'll be up all night, yes, unfortunately I'm serious.

Remember, the greatest human longing is for unity with Christ. He thirsts for you.

[philothea]

Hi, Birgitta! Nice to hear from you.

[quote name='Birgitta Noel' date='Nov 12 2005, 10:55 PM']Ok, I'm supposed to be working, but here's my gut reaction to your initial post....

This is all meant to be speculation, not accusation, ok?

1) You're avoiding God.  It's like when you really need to talk to a close friend about something that's bugging you so you'll talk about everything else but that.

2) Somewhere inside you know you're avoiding God so when you do start to pray you stop cause you feel somewhat guilty.

3) You're either holding onto something (emotional?) that you don't want to let go of, like a sinful habit, or holding on to something that you're afraid to hand over to God and trust, ie a problem.
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Hmm!

Well, (1) may be true. I certainly get into serious avoidance mode at times.

However, (2)... I don't know. Usually when I (re-)commit to praying I spend a fairly significant time in prayer daily for many months, until the effect becomes sufficiently unbearable, debilitating, and/or frightening. The feeling doesn't much resemble guilt to me.

It's more like I slowly have half of my self sucked out of me, (or crippled, or otherwise occupied and unavailable.) The remaining half is left behind, befuddled and hurting.


(3) is probably true too, but I don't know what to do about it. Not praying probably isn't a good fix.

[quote name='Birgitta Noel' date='Nov 12 2005, 10:55 PM']4) Solution?  Ummm, not sure.  Go on retreat maybe.  Before that though just start praying.  Do it every am.  Say a rosary.  If you can't find an open Church go outside and take your rosary and go for a walk.  Imagine that by taking up your rosary you are taking up the hand of Mary and ask her to lead you to her Son. 
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Unfortunately, I can't even get to a church. I don't drive, there's no church in this town, and "Could you drop me off while I walk around this church for a while" is not going to fly. I have restarted a daily rosary, but that's the kind of thing that causes my problem.

If I don't pray, after a while I feel fine. Sure, I feel guilty, pathetic, treasonous, cowardly, and like an utter loser, but nothing especially hurts, the way it does when I pray regularly.

[quote name='Birgitta Noel' date='Nov 12 2005, 10:55 PM']5)  I know you're in Central IL.  Can you get away for a few days?  I could set you up with the Sisters of St. John, and you'd have a priest (or three or four) at your disposal for confession, mass, adoration, liturgy of the hours, etc.  They're located just outside of Peoria in Princeville, IL.
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There's no way I could get away even for a few hours. It's very nice of you to offer, though! Thank you.

[quote name='Birgitta Noel' date='Nov 12 2005, 10:55 PM']6) You're not weird, you sound like me!   
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Well that's not so bad, then.

[quote name='Birgitta Noel' date='Nov 12 2005, 10:55 PM']7) There was more, but now it escapes me.  PM/IM me if you need to chat, I'll be up all night, yes, unfortunately I'm serious.     

Remember, the greatest human longing is for unity with Christ.  He thirsts for you.
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Ouch, sympathies on all the work. I ought to be getting back to my own, actually. I'll PM you if anything useful occurs to me.

Thank you very much!

[theculturewarrior]

Two miles?

Can you walk? I don't know, I just have one thought on walking. It elevates the mood, which might alleviate this problem. You would leave the Church feeling really good!

Maybe I'm a poor judge of distance, but I think I often walk two miles just for health and to spend time with God and nature.

Then again, it's in the 70's here. I forgot what the rest of the country is like!

[philothea]

[quote name='theculturewarrior' date='Nov 13 2005, 09:45 AM']Two miles?

Can you walk? I don't know, I just have one thought on walking. It elevates the mood, which might alleviate this problem. You would leave the Church feeling really good!

Maybe I'm a poor judge of distance, but I think I often walk two miles just for health and to spend time with God and nature.

Then again, it's in the 70's here. I forgot what the rest of the country is like!
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There's no physical reason why I couldn't walk, but it would be dangerous and it woud upset my husband very much. (There are loose dogs, and a high speed highway to cross.)

[journeyman]

don't put yourself in danger
don't upset your husband



it's peculiar that the more you pray, the worse you feel . . . that may be a special cross to bear (or else the opposition is watching you a lot more closely than they're watching me . . . and this is a sign of their resistance at work)



If you find one of those websites where there is a perpetual adoration camera (I think I remember you saying you had one bookmarked in another thread), can you "pretend" to be praying . . . I don't know if there is any theology behind it, but if you and the opposition don't treat it as "real" prayer - the symptoms may go away . . . and I personally think (hope/pray) that any prayer, no matter how poorly performed, receives attention in the proper circles

oh . . . I meant to say this before . . . . . . you are NOT stupid

[philothea]

[quote name='journeyman' date='Nov 13 2005, 04:41 PM']it's peculiar that the more you pray, the worse you feel . . . that may be a special cross to bear (or else the opposition is watching you a lot more closely than they're watching me . . . and this is a sign of their resistance at work)
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I know, it is peculiar!

I don't know if it's the resistance at work or not. Actually, it's not an entirely unpleasant feeling, it's more... overwhelming, I guess. Hard to deal with for long spans of time.

[quote name='journeyman' date='Nov 13 2005, 04:41 PM']

If you find one of those websites where there is a perpetual adoration camera (I think I remember you saying you had one bookmarked in another thread), can you "pretend" to be praying . . .
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The monstrance cam auto-loads onto every desktop when I log in. It does help.

[quote name='journeyman' date='Nov 13 2005, 04:41 PM']oh . . . I meant to say this before . . . 
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[color=gray](thank you)[/color]

[journeyman]

If you believe in synchronicity - or divine coincidence - then take a look at Peter Kreeft's book Prayer for Beginners by Ignatius Press. Chapter 15 - Suffering (due back at the library next week) where I happened to be when I read your last post ing

God does not cause sufferings. . . . All good is God's gifts, and God does not destroy his own gifts..

Everyone knows that suffering is a test of faith but not everyone knows why. The reason is that while we are suffering, at first the suffering does not draw us closer to God, but tempts us to turn away from Him and to concentrate wholly on ourselves, in fear or self pity.

The worst thing that ever happened, deicide, the crucifixion of God, worked for the greatest good of all, our salvation. If he can work the greatest evil for the greatest good, he can certainly work lesser evils for lesser goods. . . .

The sufferings he permits for us are like medical operations. The pain is necessary, though we do not understand why because we are not the doctor.

Suffering tempts us to deny one of the three premises, one of the three divine attributes of goodness, wisdom or power. . . . God so loved the world that he gave his only Son. That is what our faith is based on. That is why we believe God never neglects us, even when he seems to: because we belive in Christ.

God is using suffering to strengthen us even when it seems that it is weakening us: because we believe in Christ and his paradoxes about the weak being strong and the strong being weak.

from chapter 16 - Patience

Patience concerns failures. It expects and deals with failurs. Brother Lawrence says "When I fail in my duty, I readily acknowledge it saying 'I am used to doing so, I shall never do otherwise if I am left to myself.' If I fail not, then I give God thanks, acknowledging that the strength comes from Him."

to be sensible of our faults but not discouraged by them is not indifference, it is patience. Not to be sensible of them, or not to confess them, is the road to price. But to be discouraged by them is the road to despair.

What our Heavenly Father wants us to do about our spiritual failures is like what our earthly father wants us to do about our eathly failures. When we fall off the horse, or the bike, or the high road to Heaven, we must simply climb on again as soon as we are aware of the fact that we have fallen off, rather than sitting there stewing in self-pity or self-hatred. And remember to thank God for the awareness of the fact that you have fallen off the "horse" of awareness of his presence, for that, too, is his gift, not your achievement. If he did not give you the grace to notice that you have forgotten his grace, you would not only forget his grace, but you would also forget that you had forgotten his grace. And then your state would be without hope.

(that's a little deep for me at this hour)

Timing is everything. A new preacher was to give his first sermon to his Scottish congregation. Full of self-confidence, he strode to the pulpit, head held hight --- and promptly forgot what he had planned to say. After a few fumbling minutes, he ended prematurely and walked out, head bowed and humbled. As he passed a wise old parishioner, she commented, "If ye had cum in the way ye went oot, ye cud ha' gone oot the way ye cum in."

and chapter 17 on Grace

and chapter 18 on perseverance

short chapters, but not so short I can copy them all

[philothea]

[quote name='journeyman' date='Nov 15 2005, 01:44 AM']If you believe in synchronicity - or divine coincidence - then take a look at Peter Kreeft's book Prayer for Beginners by Ignatius Press.  Chapter 15 - Suffering  (due back at the library next week) where I happened to be when I read your last posting
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Hmm!

[quote name='journeyman' date='Nov 15 2005, 01:44 AM']Suffering  tempts us to deny one of the three premises, one of the three divine attributes  of goodness, wisdom or power. . . . God so loved the world that he gave his only Son.  That is what our faith is based on.  That is why we believe God never neglects us, even when he seems to:  because we belive in Christ.
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[quote name='journeyman' date='Nov 15 2005, 01:44 AM']What our Heavenly Father wants us to do about our spiritual failures is like what our earthly father wants us to do about our eathly failures.  When we fall off the horse, or the bike, or the high road to Heaven, we must simply climb on again as soon as we are aware of the fact that we have fallen off, rather than sitting there stewing in self-pity or self-hatred.  And remember to thank God for the awareness of the fact that you have fallen off the "horse" of awareness of his presence, for that, too, is his gift, not your achievement.  If he did not give you the grace to notice that you have forgotten his grace, you would not only forget his grace, but you would also forget that you had forgotten his grace.  And then your state would be without hope.

(that's a little deep for me at this hour)
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I like it.

[quote name='journeyman' date='Nov 15 2005, 01:44 AM']short chapters, but not so short I can copy them all
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It is extremely kind of you to type in as much as you did. Thank you.

I think the first part on suffering that I left unsnipped sums up my failing in this. Something happens. I don't like it, but more than that, get frightened and... I don't know.... I wonder whether God is in control. If He knows what He's doing? It sounds so idiotic when I type it, but that is what I start thinking.

I guess I'll just have to trust.

It can't get that bad, can it?

[journeyman]

[quote name='philothea' date='Nov 15 2005, 02:05 AM']Hmm!

I guess I'll just have to trust.

It can't get that bad, can it?
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trust - isn't that another word for faith?

I don't know the reasons - maybe it was to make me finish reading the book - maybe it was to have one of us say something really insightful for a lurker on the board - maybe someday we'll find out

how bad can it get . . . ladies and gentlemen, let me introduce our latest martyr for the faith . . . philothea . . . . . . and how bad is that? (on a cosmic scale . . . I know right now it hurts . . . but so does surgery, but the little hurt now is better than the greater hurt later) . . . didn't I see in one of your threads that you had read parts of St. Therese journal . . . didn't she (or maybe I've got my saints mixed up?) go through similar periods . . . maybe revisiting that reading would shed some light on the course to follow