Physical Body in heaven?

[Victor]

[color=green]365 The unity of soul and body is so profound that one has to consider the soul to be the "form" of the body: i.e., it is because of its spiritual soul that the body made of matter becomes a living, human body; spirit and matter, in man, are not two natures united, but rather their union forms a single nature.[/color]

[color=blue]How does one reconcile the above to the reality that heaven is mostly talked about as a spiritual reality? How do you have a physical body in a spiritual world? Let me know your thoughts.

~Victor[/color]

[cmotherofpirl]

Catholics beleive in the resurrection of the Body and life in the world to come - a new Creation.

[Era Might]

Also, let's not forget that, although everyone else in Spiritual, two Heavenly citizens already possess their bodies in ressurrected form: Our Lord and Our Lady.

St. Paul speaks of a "spiritual" body; truly flesh and blood, but transcending our current state.

[Victor]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Nov 11 2005, 03:59 PM']Also, let's not forget that, although everyone else in Spiritual, two Heavenly citizens already possess their bodies in ressurrected form: Our Lord and Our Lady.

St. Paul speaks of a "spiritual" body; truly flesh and blood, but transcending our current state.
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That is a good point. But I was dwelling more on how a physical body that is composed of matter dwells in a realm of spirituality. Hard to imagine what you haven't seen..

~Victor

[Socrates]

[quote name='Victor' date='Nov 11 2005, 06:14 PM']That is a good point. But I was dwelling more on how a physical body that is composed of matter dwells in a realm of spirituality. Hard to imagine what you haven't seen..

~Victor
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It will exist in the physical universe, though after the ressurrection of the dead, the physical universe will be transformed.

[scardella]

There will be the New Jerusalem. We'll probably be hanging out somewhere near there, wherever it is.

[Aloysius]

God didn't just create the physical world so that He can do away with it for eternity... it's a WORLD WITH OUT END

saecula saeculorum!

[annie]

And don't forget, we ARE in a world NOW with both physical and spiritual realms....

Whoo-hooo! A transformed body!!! No more effects of aging, gravity and sickness! whoopie!

[Didacus]

Has anyone read the last book in Narnia? I think it describes well what it 'might' look like.

Saint Augustine once said that our new bodies will be perfect compared to our new bodies once resurrected. I read this in 'City of God' and it was sdaid in such a beautiful way. He was definately the poet of Church fathers; a sinat truly in love with God.

[Justin86]

[quote name='Didacus' post='1705517' date='Nov 20 2008, 10:40 PM']Has anyone read the last book in Narnia? I think it describes well what it 'might' look like.

Saint Augustine once said that our new bodies will be perfect compared to our new bodies once resurrected. I read this in 'City of God' and it was sdaid in such a beautiful way. He was definately the poet of Church fathers; a sinat truly in love with God.[/quote]
I sense the symptoms of dyslexia in your post...

[Justin86]

[quote name='annie' post='787505' date='Nov 14 2005, 09:31 AM']And don't forget, we ARE in a world NOW with both physical and spiritual realms....

Whoo-hooo! A transformed body!!! No more effects of aging, gravity and sickness! whoopie![/quote]
I was unaware gravity was a consequence of our sins...

[Didacus]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1705522' date='Nov 20 2008, 09:45 AM']I was unaware gravity was a consequence of our sins... [/quote]

I think gravity may be a keeper in the next world, as long as we can control it like superman!

[Justin86]

Ok, I'm going to be serious for a minute (shocking, no?), and further elaborate on the question a bit.

If human nature itself is entirely composed of both body and soul, and we will only have bodies upon the resurrection of the dead, exactly what is the nature of those who are in Heaven before the resurrection? If everyone save for Jesus and Mary are in Heaven bodiless, and a body is necessary to be considered human, then the souls in Heaven can not be human, correct? If these souls are not human than what are they?

/end being serious until someone answers question

[Justin86]

[quote name='Didacus' post='1705525' date='Nov 20 2008, 10:50 PM']I think gravity may be a keeper in the next world, as long as we can control it like superman![/quote]
It's a bird! It's a plane! IT'S A CHRISTIAN!

Spectator: You mean the Flying Nun?

[Didacus]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1705526' date='Nov 20 2008, 09:52 AM']Ok, I'm going to be serious for a minute (shocking, no?), and further elaborate on the question a bit.

If human nature itself is entirely composed of both body and soul, and we will only have bodies upon the resurrection of the dead, exactly what is the nature of those who are in Heaven before the resurrection? If everyone save for Jesus and Mary are in Heaven bodiless, and a body is necessary to be considered human, then the souls in Heaven can not be human, correct? If these souls are not human than what are they?

/end being serious until someone answers question[/quote]

They are human souls, imcomplete unti lthe final accomplishments of the end of time.

Maybe like souls waiting to be conceived?

Do angels have a full nature without a body? Do they slip on a body to come to heaven like we put on clothes to go to work? Do they have several bodies to choose from when they do?

And yes, I am being serious here.

I was asked CAM42 if Saint Augustine genuinely thought that the pagans gods were real demons trying to sway humans to hell; he had written several pasasges in 'Cityu of God' leading me to think this may be the case. CAM42 never got back to me on this one but he did admit it was a very intersting question.

[thessalonian]

Evidently we haven't figured everything out about the properties of either physical or spiritual realms or for that matter even come close. Christ in his resurected body walked through a wall. Even in his natural body he was able to walk on water. God is in control of the physical and evdiently while we know some physical laws we don't know em all.

[Ziggamafu]

The most interesting aspect of the question is in the implications surrounding Mary, Jesus, Elijah, and (presumably) Enoch and others like them who are bodily in Heaven. How can a temporal thing (the physical, finite flesh) exist in a purely spiritual environment (infinity / eternity)? Is there a way to explain this in a way that does justice to Truth's divine quality of Logic?

[Justin86]

[quote name='Didacus' post='1705528' date='Nov 20 2008, 10:56 PM']They are human souls, imcomplete unti lthe final accomplishments of the end of time.[/quote]
But how can there be such a thing as "a human soul", if by definition of "human" you're saying both soul and body?

[quote]Maybe like souls waiting to be conceived?[/quote]
I had always envisioned souls waiting to be conceived as existing solely in the mind of God, while souls in Heaven are outside of Him in Heaven existing around Him. I have trouble picturing souls just sitting around up there, waiting to be shot down to Earth. I also believe that it is silly to assume every soul that exists in the mind of an Infinite God is going to be created. I doubt we humans could even count the number of souls God has thought of. We were only chosen for creation because God loved us.

In either case, we are getting rather off topic with that discussion.

[quote]Do angels have a full nature without a body?[/quote]
Actually the "angelic" nature is by definition a pure-spirit being, so I believe the answer would be that angels actually can't "take upon flesh" like our Lord became "truly man" , or else they would no longer be pure spirits.

Our human nature on the other hand, apparently must consist of both body and spirit. Confusing since most members of Heaven don't have bodies as of yet.

[quote]Do they slip on a body to come to heaven like we put on clothes to go to work?[/quote]
I believe the correct answer is exactly that.

[quote]Do they have several bodies to choose from when they do?[/quote]
If I remember correctly angels actually have the ability to manipulate matter, so it's not far fetched that they would adjust the look of their "bodies" to suit the purpose of their apparitions.

[quote]I was asked CAM42 if Saint Augustine genuinely thought that the pagans gods were real demons trying to sway humans to hell; he had written several pasasges in 'Cityu of God' leading me to think this may be the case. CAM42 never got back to me on this one but he did admit it was a very intersting question.[/quote]
I absolutely believe this myself. The pagan gods and goddess' had way to much in common throughout world cultures (although they were under different names) to just be coincidences.

Edited November 20, 2008 by Justin86

[Justin86]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' post='1705541' date='Nov 20 2008, 11:22 PM']The most interesting aspect of the question is in the implications surrounding Mary, Jesus, Elijah, and (presumably) Enoch and others like them who are bodily in Heaven. How can a temporal thing (the physical, finite flesh) exist in a purely spiritual environment (infinity / eternity)? Is there a way to explain this in a way that does justice to Truth's divine quality of Logic?[/quote]
Flesh may be finite, but that doesn't make it necessarily mortal(God originally created flesh to be immortal, by the way). If you wanted to ban all things finite from Heaven than obviously the only Persons who would exist there would be God.

[Didacus]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1705574' date='Nov 20 2008, 10:53 AM']Flesh may be finite, but that doesn't make it necessarily mortal(God originally created flesh to be immortal, by the way). If you wanted to ban all things finite from Heaven than obviously the only Persons who would exist there would be God.[/quote]

But heaven being outside of time would only contain things that cannot end (hence be infinite) since any-thing contianed in heaven would not be subject to change.