I hate the holidays.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Nov 22 2005, 10:23 PM']I guess in the end, there is a plan in all this that God is overseeing, even when we lose loved ones when it seems like it wasn't their time to go. I know that talk of God having a plan can sound pretty repetitive and cliché -- but I guess I find it more comforting to try to understand life as not being a series of random, pointless events.
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yeah... life definitely isn't just random and pointless events. I know this is all part of God's plan and i'm just having trouble accepting that I can't have him back. It hurts so much though... I know this isn't true, but sometimes I wonder if God just wants me to be miserable and He doesn't care one way or the other, because that's how it seems a lot of the time. After he died, I couldn't stand it at home (since i don't have feelings when i'm at home and i always have to be happy all the time) so I just spent the entire day in the adoration chapel crying. It was like a 9-5 job. I was so MAD at God. Now I'm not mad like that anymore... I don't blame Him for taking Peter... sometimes I blame myself because I worry if it was my fault. I don't think I'd have survived this if it weren't for adoration. Church is the only place where I actually feel things, which is why i am notorious for weeping all of the time... i think everyone in the parish thinks i'm some kind of freak.

it's awesome that you've been able to find a group of friends to celebrate Thanksgiving with. It sounds like a lot of fun! I love cooking dinners with friends. I think I could have spent thanksgiving in New Mexico with my dad's side of the family... They're even more repressed than my mom's side, though. They just bottle everything up and get hideously drunk... which doesn't sound so bad right now, but I KNOW it is. I am really worried about turning into an alcoholic.

[photosynthesis]

I think today, I can say "God is good."

[Dave]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Nov 23 2005, 12:22 PM']I think today, I can say "God is good."
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Does that mean you're feeling better?

I just want to add to what has been already said ... as Cmom said, there's no timetable for grieving regardless of what others may think. You have to grieve for however long you have to grieve, and however you choose to deal with it is perfectly fine (just so long as it's not destructive or immoral).

People also speak of getting over it. But when it comes to losing someone you love, whether through death, falling-out, moving away, etc., you NEVER get over it. Rather, you just eventually, somehow or other, reach a point where you learn to live with it.

[susanbailey]

I just read through this thread too and I am so sorry for your loss. I lost my dad two years ago on Dec. 18 after a horrific 3 month struggle with brain cancer.

I'm glad that you give yourself permission to weep in front of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. It's important that we give ourselves permission to feel what we are feeling. I think the only people who could comprehend your loss is people who have lost their spouse. I know I can't begin to understand the loss my mother feels after 50+ years with this wonderful man who was my dad. Losing a parent is very difficult, but somehow, I think losing your true love would be so much harder.

I'd like to share something hopeful with you. I often have these little "visits" from my dad, most especially when I am in prayer with the Blessed Mother. I am a singer and once I was recording a version of Shubert's Ave Maria - I didn't sing it in the typical classical fashion, but rather sang it low, prayerfully, but more like a pop song, if you can imagine that. :-) Anyway, when I got to the second verse and the part about "Nunc et in hora mortis" (in the hour of our death) and thought about praying for my dad with the Hail Mary just before he died, I had the most INTENSE visit from him at that moment - I saw in my mind him beside the Blessed Mother in heaven, and I felt him saying to me that he understood everything now and was truly happy. I felt this tremendous surge of peace, a bittersweet peace, that touch of peace that is so unique to the Blessed Mother. I will never forget that moment. It's those moments, those "visits" that keep me connected to him and put me at peace.

I hope you too have, or will, experience these kinds of visits. Our loved ones never really leave us, they are always in our hearts and connect us to our Heavenly Father.

Bless you, Susan

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='susanbailey' date='Nov 23 2005, 12:15 PM']I hope you too have, or will, experience these kinds of visits. Our loved ones never really leave us, they are always in our hearts and connect us to our Heavenly Father.
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I don't know if I've gotten these kinds of visits you speak about... they sound pretty cool! I rarely ever get visions or things of that nature. Sometimes I see him in my dreams... but that can be good or bad. Sometimes I dream that he is in Heaven and he's not sick anymore... sometimes I have dreams where he is still suffering in Heaven, sometimes have dreams where I die and go to heaven, and he doesn't recognize me. I get a lot of bad dreams!

sometimes I ask Peter to pray for me, and I think he does. I don't know if you're allowed to do that. He was very holy and died peacefully in the arms of Our Lady...but I know the Church teaches that you can never really be sure if a person is in heaven or not...

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Dave' date='Nov 23 2005, 11:40 AM']Does that mean you're feeling better?
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I think it means God doesn't hate me.

I know it's ridiculous, but a lot of times the only way I can make sense out of this is "God took him away from me, God wants me to be miserable, God hates me."

Then I usually go to confession (like I did yesterday) and say something like "I think I am in a state of mortal sin but I'm not sure what I did" and the priest tells me that I'm scrupulous and need counseling.

I know God is a good, loving, merciful God... but sometimes it seems like He is sadistic and he likes to see me like this.

[susanbailey]

When my dad died I asked for a sign from Mary that he made it to at least purgatory (because he was a very lapsed Catholic, although a good man and he didn't make any move towards coming back until a week before he died - too long a story to post here) and I got one. My husband has a devotion to Our Lady of Perpetual Help and there is a specific icon of her. I have taken on that devotion myself. He attends this Eastern Rite Catholic Church (aka Melkite - they're under the pope) called Our Lady of Perpetual Help and it has the most gorgeous full length icon.

Anyway, the day we went over to the church where the funeral was to be held, I saw a portrait of this icon at a most unlikely place - as we were going down to the lower level of the church, there is was as plain as day on the wall of the staircase! That made me take pause. Then, the morning of the funeral, I saw her again, in the basement, on the cover of the local Catholic newspaper, taking up the whole page! Right then and there I knew I gotten my sign. :-)

Tradition has it that more souls make it out of purgatory during the Christmas season than at any time during the year. I don't know about that, but I do know that I feel a strong sense that he is in heaven with Jesus and Mary. Maybe I'm deluding myself on that regard, who knows? I'm a very practical person and not one who sees lots of visions and miracles. Even the "visit" that I described to you was not what I would call a vision, just a picture in my mind, and a strong sense of peace.

All I know is that it gives me peace.

Peter loved Jesus and Mary. He was praying the rosary when he died. Be assured that he is either with them now, or will be with them soon once his purification in purgatory is complete. But even if he is in purgatory, it is with the hope and assurance that he will be with them. And he will know you when he sees you again. I really believe that.

Susan

[philothea]

(Checking brain... nope, still can't think of anything remotely useful to say. Stupid brain.)



I'll be thinking about you as I sit around with annoying, superficial faux/lapsed Catholics and eat food I don't want. I'd rather hang with you and acknowledge the truth, even if the truth is sad right now.

Prayers that St. Michael whaps your relatives with a big clue stick, and maybe they have some consideration for a change.

[Ash Wednesday]

Photo, your priest might be correct about scrupulosity. Mortal sin is willfully done and deliberate. You might want to get treatment like grief counseling or for depression -- when I had depression unchecked I thought I was going to hell -- but I couldn't really pin it down as to what specificially I had done. We all know the devil is the prince of lies, and depression also says some really dirty lies to our minds as well -- that there is an punitive God that wants us to suffer, that we deserve every bit suffering we get, that it's ALL your fault.

I don't think God likes to see us suffer. We are so united with Jesus that we actually suffer with him. I think God brings gifted people in this world around us to help us along the way when we do suffer. People to help ease the weight of our cross some.

If it turns out you have depression and your relatives give you flack for seeking help, that's their problem. You have the right to do what you need to do to SURVIVE. Don't let anyone convince you that you have to go through this alone.

[susanbailey]

I went into a depression after my dad died. I am prone to depression anyway so I know the signs well. I first went to my parish priest who suggested a counselor in our area. He was wonderful and helped me sort out my thoughts. I also approached my family doctor and he prescribed an anti-depressant for me to take the edge off. I don't normally promote these kinds of drugs as they are sooo tricky (my mom had a terrible reaction to them) but they can help.

As hard as it might be, it's important to try to be proactive. Seeking out counseling is being proactive. I remember talking to my parish priest about how I felt an urge to make a really big change in my life (in this case moving from our condominium of 16 years to our first real house - a big step since I didn't think we could pull it off financially) and he said that was a common reaction to death. Sometimes something so monumental gives us that needed push to make changes in our lives.

I knew too that buying a house would have so pleased my dad. Making that kind of proactive move brought such joy into my life and the lives of my family members. It gave them something fun and uplifting to talk about. I felt so grateful to God for making this miracle happen. I knew too that my dad was interceding for us.

Being proactive means stepping out of the boat, so to speak. Scary! But it breathes new life into us. Perhaps there was something Peter wanted you to accomplish. It's perfectly okay to ask for his intercession. Ask him to suggest something proactive you can do to move into a better area of your life.

You won't be leaving him behind either if you move on. You will be bringing him with you to new and happier times.

Susan

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='susanbailey' date='Nov 23 2005, 01:13 PM']Tradition has it that more souls make it out of purgatory during the Christmas season than at any time during the year. I don't know about that, but I do know that I feel a strong sense that he is in heaven with Jesus and Mary. Maybe I'm deluding myself on that regard, who knows? I'm a very practical person and not one who sees lots of visions and miracles. Even the "visit" that I described to you was not what I would call a vision, just a picture in my mind, and a strong sense of peace.

All I know is that it gives me peace.

Peter loved Jesus and Mary. He was praying the rosary when he died. Be assured that he is either with them now, or will be with them soon once his purification in purgatory is complete. But even if he is in purgatory, it is with the hope and assurance that he will be with them. And he will know you when he sees you again. I really believe that.

Susan
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that's a really amazing story! I'm glad God gave you peace about this. Isn't Our Lady wonderful?

I am pretty sure that he is either in heaven or getting there... Now I have to work on getting there too!

Our priest from back home (the one who baptised him and helped him prepare for death) actually wants to put a cause out for canonization.

[quote name='susanbailey' date='Nov 23 2005, 02:31 PM']Being proactive means stepping out of the boat, so to speak. Scary! But it breathes new life into us. Perhaps there was something Peter wanted you to accomplish. It's perfectly okay to ask for his intercession. Ask him to suggest something proactive you can do to move into a better area of your life.

You won't be leaving him behind either if you move on. You will be bringing him with you to new and happier times.
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I can definitely relate to that! Peter said he always wanted me to finish school because he would never be able to finish school with his illness. He took a few classes at Rutgers but he eventually got too sick. He wanted to be an English teacher. He always called me at college and would ask about EVERY detail... the dorms, the classes, my major, etc. When he was dying, he would say "I don't want this to get in the way of your schoolwork." Well, it did. I ended up withdrawing from most of the classes and i am graduating a semester late. But I am graduating finally in about 3 weeks! provided that I get everything done...

I do get afraid of leaving him behind. I feel guilty whenever I go on a date with another man, or think about marrying anyone else... no one would ever be the same.

Edited November 24, 2005 by photosynthesis

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='philothea' date='Nov 23 2005, 01:34 PM'](Checking brain... nope, still can't think of anything remotely useful to say.  Stupid brain.)



I'll be thinking about you as I sit around with annoying, superficial faux/lapsed Catholics and eat food I don't want.  I'd rather hang with you and acknowledge the truth, even if the truth is sad right now.

Prayers that St. Michael whaps your relatives with a big clue stick, and maybe they have some consideration for a change.
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I hope so... at least my cousins will be there. My cousins are like my best friends. some of them know about the relationship I had with Peter, some don't. I am beginning to realize that denial has worked for me for the past 10 years and it's going to work now.

well, actually denial never works but i'm going to tell myself it works anyway.

[Socrates]

The ghost of Peter just popped out of my beer bottle and told me to tell you to snap out of it!

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Nov 23 2005, 02:22 PM']Photo, your priest might be correct about scrupulosity. Mortal sin is willfully done and deliberate. You might want to get treatment like grief counseling or for depression -- when I had depression unchecked I thought I was going to hell -- but I couldn't really pin it down as to what specificially I had done. We all know the devil is the prince of lies, and depression also says some really dirty lies to our minds as well -- that there is an punitive God that wants us to suffer, that we deserve every bit suffering we get, that it's ALL your fault.

I don't think God likes to see us suffer. We are so united with Jesus that we actually suffer with him.  I think God brings gifted people in this world around us to help us along the way when we do suffer. People to help ease the weight of our cross some.

If it turns out you have depression and your relatives give you flack for seeking help, that's their problem. You have the right to do what you need to do to SURVIVE. Don't let anyone convince you that you have to go through this alone.
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I will try to remember that... i guess I'm not all alone if Jesus is suffering with me. I am thinking about going back to counseling, but I'm not sure if I'm ready to do it yet. I have a LOT of issues with counseling and therapists. They're not my favorite people. I always say, "you can't spell therapist without the word 'rapist.'" That tends to annoy my Psy.D candidate friends, but some people are just too easily offended. i was mentally and physically raped by psychology and i do get worried that it would happen again if I try to get helped. my family would like it if I sought counsling, because I was raised to believe that counseling is the savior of the world and the solution to man's problems. for me, it's the cause of my problems...

I've never tried a Catholic therapist before, though. I don't think I would benefit from secular therapy at all, but if it's in line with the Gospel then it can't be bad.

I have a spiritual director, though. He is a priest and he is wonderful! I am going to miss him when I have to move.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Nov 23 2005, 08:27 PM']The ghost of Peter just popped out of my beer bottle and told me to tell you to snap out of it!
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I am not amused.

plus, Peter never liked beer...he was always a whiskey-drinking kind of guy.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Nov 23 2005, 08:27 PM']The ghost of Peter just popped out of my beer bottle and told me to tell you to snap out of it!
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you are insensitive and unkind.

[Socrates]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Nov 23 2005, 08:45 PM']you are insensitive and unkind.
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Sorry, just felt some levity was needed here - this was getting dreary and depressing. (And I'm sure Peter feels the same way.)

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

i can't tell you i know what it feels like to be in your situation because its never happened to me. But i Will pray for you.


sam

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Nov 23 2005, 08:53 PM']Sorry, just felt some levity was needed here - this was getting dreary and depressing.  (And I'm sure Peter feels the same way.)
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what were you expecting, show tunes? If I were able to snap out of it, I would.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Nov 23 2005, 09:01 PM']i can't tell you i know what it feels like to be in your situation because its never happened to me. But i Will pray for you.
sam
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thank you!