my angry morning

[Sirklawd]

it was announced yesturday that hillary clinton and joe leiberman have put up a new bill for approval called the "The Family Entertainment Protection Act" which, if approved, would do a few things. Namely, make law that mature (M) rated videogames can not be sold to minors. It would also make the government an official watchdog of the game industry and the ESRB. making sure ratings are correct, and making sure that what happened with the "hot cofee" isnt a regular occurance.

theres more info here: [url="http://www.livejournal.com/users/gamepolitics/146121.html#cutid1"]http://www.livejournal.com/users/gamepolit...121.html#cutid1[/url]

so my original stance is that this is not particular harmful to the industry, but that it is just retarded. a stupid solution to an even stupider problem. They claim that videogames are violent (making gamers violent) and that this bill is to help parents. wrong and wrong. firstly, GAMES DO NOT MAKE CHILDREN VIOLENT.
if anyone ever says this, please show them this link (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/viort.htm)
Secondly, this bill will not stop children from playing the games they want. it all eventually comes down to how much time parents spend with thier children

what really pisses me off though is that I woke up this morning and on the news they showed this story about how people are protesting the NH law that underage girls looking to get an abortion have to get parental permission.

...

so there are places in this country where people can GET AN ABORTION without their parent's knowing, but they have to have their parent to play grand thef auto?????????????

this country needs to have the **** slapped out of it. right. now. im so happy politicians really care so much about the state family and morality in this country.im so happy things make sense.

so. angry.

[homeschoolmom]

You're not a parent, are you....

[Sirklawd]

clarification plz

and just to reaffirm my stance: this thread isnt about anti-gaming legislation, or parents role in protecting and teaching their children. i expect all that to be VERY obvious.

this is about this country not having its head on straight, as in laws that require a parent approvale for one thing, and not for another (more serious) thing.

Edited November 30, 2005 by Sirklawd

[homeschoolmom]

I don't know... I guess I didn't read your OP very clearly... I saw the Lieberman thing on CSPAN last night (purely coincidence)... those games are carp and I can't see any benefit to them. Sorry.

[Sirklawd]

hey thats fine, and the fact that you are a parent and making that opinion is great. in general i think this law is fine, works just like dvds and movie purchases. the whole idea behind it that games make kids more violent is stupid. and [url="http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/viort.htm"]FALSE[/url]

i get pissed when there isnt an across-the-board standard when it it comes to underage priviledges. do you think its right that a child cant have acces to grand theft auto and the like.. but CAN have an abortion without their parents knowing?

Edited November 30, 2005 by Sirklawd

[homeschoolmom]

Oh, heck no!

I don't like it that a child needs permission to get ears pierce, but not an abortion... It's crazy.

And while I don't necessarily believe that those games make kids more violent per se (though I haven't really decided what I think yet...), they certainly don't make him more pro social. Those zombie games are VIOLENT... kids LAUGH when they play them... I don't like 'em.

[Sirklawd]

haha, but when zombies DO attack we now have a generation fo children that can defend themselves!

the ear piercing example is just as perfect. i hadnt thought about that. why doesnt everyone see the utter stupidity in all of this.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Sirklawd' date='Nov 30 2005, 10:52 AM']haha, but when zombies DO attack we now have a generation fo children that can defend themselves!

the ear piercing example is just as perfect. i hadnt thought about that. why doesnt everyone see the utter stupidity in all of this.
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[inDEED]

[Dreamweaver]

Video games are awesome, and I'm of age, so I don't really care about the law. : I've never understood what the big controversy over games is about. There are worse things on TV. I'd also like to add that playing video games does not make one violent. If anything, it gets violence out of a users system.

When I was 18, I bought a rated M game at Toys R' Us and they actually CARDED ME. I didn't know retail places actually checked for things like that. Eh, the videogame sucked anyways (Legion: Legend of Excalibur, a bad Arthurian hack and slash).

[Sirklawd]

[Thy Geekdom Come]

I don't think video games make kids more violent. I think it keeps them violent when they already are. Non-violent kids won't generally buy violent games (boxing games don't count...I'm talking games with cursing, blood, lethal force, and cop-killing)...violent kids do buy them. As a result, they don't make them more violent necessarily, nor would tests indicate such. However, they certainly don't help them to become less violent.

[jezic]

i think you are missing the point of the thread ....

[Sirklawd]

[url="http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/viort.htm"]http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/viort.htm[/url]

this is a chart from actual crimes reported by police and fbi in this country. violence in 2004 is at a 40 year low.

graphics have gotten better (though no where near life-like or even movies), and the ways to inflict violence has gotten more creative.

yet violence in children is at a 40 year low. 40 years! one can more soundly make the point that videogames are creating more PEACEFUL children.

violenct games do not make children violent. i dont see how this point can be clearer.

never will people look at football, which by definition has children act more violent than a videogame, and presume it makes children more violent, and then proceed to ban underage children from playing.

so now that that has all been said i hope we move along to the point of the thread. the greater stupidity of this nation.

it bothers me that politicians dont look at the statistics of their own country. the country they susposidly care about so much. this makes them very stupid. and if not stupid then they purposful creating a state fear to promote their own glory. "we shall save you from the horrible games! now, kids, go have an abortion without telling your parents"

Edited November 30, 2005 by Sirklawd

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='jezic' date='Nov 30 2005, 12:12 PM']i think you are missing the point of the thread ....
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[quote]firstly, GAMES DO NOT MAKE CHILDREN VIOLENT. [/quote]

I was answering that point from the first post.

[homeschoolmom]

Violent games do nothing to uphold the dignity of the human person.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Sirklawd' date='Nov 30 2005, 12:19 PM'][url="http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/viort.htm"]http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/viort.htm[/url]

this is a chart from actual crimes reported by police and fbi in this country. violence in 2004 is at a 40 year low.
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To cast a reasonable doubt: that chart includes rape...and those statistics are based off reported crime. More occurences of rape would have been reported back before abortion was legal in the US as well as before modern contraception. Nowadays, however, I'm willing to bet that more rape victims try to forget the offense and abort the child or were already on contraception and never report the offense because the feel that if no one finds out (and pregnancy would have made it obvious), then they don't want to tell anyone. Back in the day, I would venture to say, if they got pregnant, they would have reported it, just because as long as their pregnant and it's obvious that something happened, they might as well report and get justice.

Just a theory.

[Sirklawd]

[quote name='Raphael' date='Nov 30 2005, 11:25 AM']To cast a reasonable doubt:  that chart includes rape...and those statistics are based off reported crime.  More occurences of rape would have been reported back before abortion was legal in the US as well as before modern contraception.  Nowadays, however, I'm willing to bet that more rape victims try to forget the offense and abort the child or were already on contraception and never report the offense because the feel that if no one finds out (and pregnancy would have made it obvious), then they don't want to tell anyone.  Back in the day, I would venture to say, if they got pregnant, they would have reported it, just because as long as their pregnant and it's obvious that something happened, they might as well report and get justice.

Just a theory.
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ya i had thought about stuff like this. and you are right, the chart does not show crimes that werent reported. that means more than just rape. the thing is all of these accusations against the industry are that violence is infact ocurring because of games. they are so adamant they are trying to pass laws about it.

now im not trying to deny that there are rapes and murders that go undocumented. but if the best these people have to go on is that a violent acts "could" or "may have" happened than this is even more outrageous.

im going to become a politician and get a law going that says that because tacobell doesnt have delivery some cats could explode.

[Dreamweaver]

Is there any videogame that has rape in it? Whether implied or in a character's history.

I beat the single player for Perfect Dark Zero last night, and I'm not about to start shooting up people at corrupt organizations, like [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Thompson_(attorney)"]Jack Thompson[/url] wants you to believe.

There's also many videogames based on war, like Medal of Honor and Call of Duty. I wouldn't say that they promote violence. If anything, they show the realities and gruesomeness of war. It ain't pretty, and they can be more effective than passively watching a movie at portraying what goes on.

[tojo]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Nov 30 2005, 11:22 AM']Violent games do nothing to uphold the dignity of the human person.
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I agree, this to me is their real problem, more than the violence itself. Go ahead and make a game in which soldiers shoot the enemy (in the contest of a just war, lol), but games in which thugs kill prostitutes instead of paying them and other horrendous scenarios degrade humanity. The only thing theses games seem to have left to do is have the player be a rapist, that's all that's left.....