I need some prayers and suggestions

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

thanks for the suggestions everyone.

[djc08]

I know that you've had a thread about illicit masses. Don't let those get you down. I can't tell you how many times that i've gone to a mass with a priest that has done some things or said some things that i didn't agree with.

I can't promise I'll pray for you because I always forget who actually needs prayers when I do pray but I'll try extra hard to remember you. Good luck.

May the Holy Spirtit guide you.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Dec 1 2005, 09:20 PM']thanks guys.

my biggest problem is the church today. My old parish ( I left because it was to liberal) the new Pastor there told everyone and these are his worrds, that he "loses the catholic teachings about homosexuality 'behind the radiator'"

there is so much abuse in the church. I think JP2 was a very holy man but i also think that because of his ineffective leadership the church is in a state of crisis right now.
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God gives each of us a particular gift to use for the world. Our task is to discover or uncover our gift and use it to the best of our ability. Everyones gift is different. They are not duplicated by the next pope. I think John Paul II was a man of great sanctity and personal holiness and drew millions of people to the Church. He used his gifts to the best of his ability and that is all each of us can do.
Benedict clearly has a different set of gifts and so we pray he uses his wisely under the guidance of the Holy Spirit to lead as well.

Edited December 3, 2005 by cmotherofpirl

[Socrates]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Dec 1 2005, 08:20 PM']thanks guys.

my biggest problem is the church today. My old parish ( I left because it was to liberal) the new Pastor there told everyone and these are his worrds, that he "loses the catholic teachings about homosexuality 'behind the radiator'"

there is so much abuse in the church. I think JP2 was a very holy man but i also think that because of his ineffective leadership the church is in a state of crisis right now.
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The problem is you're not using your intellect, you're falling prey to emotions.

You take abuses and heretical priests, and then blame these things on Pope John Paul II, Vatican II, or whatever, as if the Church sanctions these things.

Blaming the Church itself for the bad actions of some of its members is falacious and illogical.

And I don't know why you're so hung up on Pope John Paul II. The problems you mentioned began well before he became Pope, and were at their worst in the '70s.

For instance, the liberal priest you are talking about is not following the teachings of the Church or of the Pope, but rather acting contrary to them.

Luther was unhappy about the abuses he saw in the Church in the 1500s and broke away. You see where that led. Breaking away from the Church now is no different.


What I would suggest is that you totally, completely stay away from "Trad" websites and phorums. Their rhetoric seems to have a very bad effect on you. In fact, I would say that, for you, that stuff is as spiritually damaging as going to porn sites. Avoid both like the plague. If you're tempted to go on a "Trad" site, say a prayer instead.

[brendan1104]

sam!

you're starting to come back to sanity- i.e. traditionalism.

no, sam, traditionalists are not outside the Church.

even if you go to the insult.. er.. indult, you're still a rad trad in full communion with Papa Ratzy.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

no sorry brendan im still insane.

[qfnol31]

If you want to talk about it anytime, I'm up for it.

I am one who wants to cry half the time at Mass (I have no tearducts as I'm a Klingon, but that's a different story).

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='qfnol31' date='Dec 3 2005, 12:10 AM']If you want to talk about it anytime, I'm up for it. 

I am one who wants to cry half the time at Mass (I have no tearducts as I'm a Klingon, but that's a different story).
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why do you want to cry at mass?

[qfnol31]

Abuses.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

yeah my mass is the same....

[qfnol31]

I'm actually very fortunate at school.

Though the Mass on campus is really bad, the one across the street at Cistercian is the best English Mass I've ever been to just about.

[missionseeker]

[quote name='Theologian in Training' date='Dec 2 2005, 02:11 AM']Perhaps, your rashness is based upon the same haste with which you left traditionalism in the first place. Maybe you should step back and examine why it is you left traditionalism in the first place.

I know it had something to do with a charismatic retreat, but what was it, in particular, that drew you away from the level of traditionalism you used to practice?

Also, being traditional is not a bad thing. It is when you start putting it above the Church that the problems ensue. I had a good priest friend, not two years ordained, is now saying the Latin Mass in L.A. somewhere because he decided the Church was in a state of crisis and, instead of trying to do something about it decided to run away. It was quite sad..he just decided to up and leave one day, because he just could not handle the Church as it is. However, one thing he should have remembered, and it might be good for you to remember is that the Church is not our Church, we did not institute it, we did not found its religion, we did not even create the Mass, it is the result of Christ and Apostolic Tradition (granted, I am oversimplifying, but you get the point).

Pray more about it. Put the books down for a moment, and discern on your knees, not with your head. Also, if it is intellectually that a problem exists, perhaps you have to examine what you are reading. Is it all stuff that is negative towards Vatican II, John Paul II, etc. or is it balanced? In other words are you exclusively reading "The Great Facade" or are you balancing it with "The Spirit of the Liturgy?"

Just some things to think about.

God Bless
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We need you in our diocese

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Dec 3 2005, 01:16 AM']yeah my mass is the same....
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Instead of concentrating on what you consider wrong during Mass, just BE there with God. You need to refocus your mind on the most important thing at that moment - Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. If there are any "abuses" stay after, pray a rosary and talk to the priest. But during Mass, lift up your heart to the LORD.

[Dave]

Sam, I have a book recommendation for you:

"More Catholic Than the Pope: An Inside Look at Extreme Traditionalism" by Patrick Madrid and Pete Vere

Also, in Phatmass' reference section in the Word and Apologetics forum, there are some excellent sites that refute the arguments of radical traditionalism.

[Dave]

[quote name='brendan1104' date='Dec 3 2005, 12:07 AM']no, sam, traditionalists are not outside the Church.

even if you go to the insult.. er.. indult, you're still a rad trad in full communion with Papa Ratzy.
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If they refuse to assent to the teachings of Vatican II (which, like the teachings of all other ecumenical councils, require our assent) or believe the Novus Ordo Mass to be intrinsically bad rather than bad when abused, then they are indeed outside of the Church.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

thanks dave that book will be on my christmas list.

[Colleen]

You will be in my prayers, Sam.

[TheSecond]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Dec 1 2005, 09:33 PM']I find my self slowly driffting back to traditionalism and i do not want to go back.

i need some sugeestions from you guys on how to stop this,

i would also appreciate some prayer as well.

God Bless,

Sam
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[jmjtina]

prayers!

[TheSecond]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Dec 1 2005, 10:20 PM']thanks guys.

my biggest problem is the church today. My old parish ( I left because it was to liberal) the new Pastor there told everyone and these are his worrds, that he "loses the catholic teachings about homosexuality 'behind the radiator'"

there is so much abuse in the church. I think JP2 was a very holy man but i also think that because of his ineffective leadership the church is in a state of crisis right now.
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