Theologians against JPII

[cmotherofpirl]

Don't make John Paul saint - dissident theologians
Tue Dec 6, 2005 1:43 PM GMT
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By Philip Pullella

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Dissident theologians opposed to the beatification of Pope John Paul have issued an appeal urging Catholics critical of the late pope to tell the Vatican if they also think he should not be made a saint.

The 11 Catholic theologians said Church officials who are reviewing John Paul's life and pontificate should also consider the "negative evaluation" liberal critics have of the nearly 27-year-old papacy that ended when John Paul died in April.

The Rome diocese has opened a beatification cause for the Pope. Church officials have asked all Catholics to come forward with personal experiences or evidence of possible miracles that could support a reputation for holiness.

In their appeal, which received wide play in major Italian newspapers on Tuesday, the theologians from Italy, Spain, Austria and Latin America said those judging the case should also take into account "negative" aspects of John Paul's papacy.

One of the best-known signatories was Jose Maria Castillo, a Jesuit professor who has taught theology at the University of Granada. Another was Italian theologian Giovanni Franzoni.

"We invite such persons (critical of the late pope) to overcome their shyness and timidity and formally express, with gospel freedom, facts which according to their consciences and convictions should be an obstacle to beatification," they wrote.

CHURCH SCANDALS

While the theologians acknowledged John Paul's papacy had "positive aspects", their seven-point appeal included criticism of his rigidly conservative stand on issues such as contraception, limitations on the role of women, and of scandals in the Church.

It included the sexual abuse scandal that swept the United States in 2002, when it was discovered that priests who had molested children were moved from parish to parish instead of being defrocked or turned over to authorities.

The appeal criticised what it called a lack of control over some of the Vatican's "murky financial manoeuvres", specifically naming the Holy See's relations with Italy's Banco Ambrosiano, which went bankrupt in 1982.

Italian magistrates at the time said the Vatican Bank, which had a small stake in the Ambrosiano, bore some responsibility for the $1.3 billion in bad debts. The Vatican denied wrongdoing but paid $250 million to creditors in what it called a goodwill gesture.

The theologians said the Church's saint makers should also consider the "repression and alienation" inflicted on some theologians by John Paul, a reference to his moves to discipline promoters of Latin America's "Liberation Theology," which he felt was too close to Marxist social analysis as a way of helping the continent's poor.

Last May, Pope Benedict put his predecessor on the fast track to possible sainthood by dispensing with Church rules that impose a five-year waiting period after a candidate's death before the procedure that leads to sainthood can even start.

One miracle is required after John Paul's death for the cause to move on to beatification, the last step before sainthood. The miracle must be the result of prayers asking the dead pope to intercede with God.

Another miracle would be necessary between beatification and eventual sainthood. Miracles are usually a physical healing which doctors are at a loss to explain.



© Reuters 2005. All Rights Reserved.

[Aloysius]

[quote]The 11 Catholic theologians said Church officials who are reviewing John Paul's life and pontificate should also consider the "negative evaluation" liberal critics have of the nearly 27-year-old papacy that ended when John Paul died in April.[/quote]

yep, they should definitely take that negative evaluation of liberal critics into consideration, chalk it up to the PRO side of being a saint, if you anger liberal scum, you gotta be saint-material.

[jezic]

^^ i like. :


THough really the article doesn't make sense at all, who cares that he comes down hard on the dissidents and gays and other stuff (well me, for different reasons than i mean here) it is the right thing to do. It is what we have to do. I will never figure out what is up with people like this.

[Era Might]

Santo Subito!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote] rigidly conservative stand on issues such as contraception,[/quote]

Ummm...isn't that a reason he SHOULD be beatified?

[Colleen]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it a requirement for the canonization process to examine claims of why someone should not be canonized? I'm not saying what these people are doing is right, let me make that clear. But I seem to remember hearing this somewhere. Does anyone know?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Colleen' date='Dec 6 2005, 10:07 PM']Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it a requirement for the canonization process to examine claims of why someone should not be canonized? I'm not saying what these people are doing is right, let me make that clear. But I seem to remember hearing this somewhere. Does anyone know?
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Yes, the "devil's advocate" brings up the case against canonization. That's all well and fine. What's bad is that a bunch of dissidents have appointed themselves to the position of advocatus diaboli.

[Colleen]

[quote name='Raphael' date='Dec 6 2005, 10:15 PM']Yes, the "devil's advocate" brings up the case against canonization.  That's all well and fine.  What's bad is that a bunch of dissidents have appointed themselves to the position of advocatus diaboli.
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Oh, of course. I was just curious about the official "devil's advocate" part. These people in the article sadden me.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Colleen' date='Dec 6 2005, 10:18 PM']Oh, of course. I was just curious about the official "devil's advocate" part. These people in the article sadden me.
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Of course, Colleen. I knew you weren't agreeing with them.

[jmjtina]

Key word: dissident

[benedictaj]

[quote]his rigidly conservative stand on issues such as contraception, limitations on the role of women, and of scandals in the Church.[/quote]

What? He did so much for women!!!!

Btw, I realise about the whole showing all sides of him....but still!!! As a girl, I take offence at that!

[toledo_jesus]

while I myself held doubts about making him a saint so soon (simply because his death is so recent in our memories, and his impact still not fully appreciated) I think those dissidents have poo for brains. They don't want him to be a saint because he was too Catholic.

I hope the Church gives him the title of "Great" and tells the dissident theologians to stick it in their ear.

[qfnol31]

Technically they have to hear all arguments, including those of the liberals, schismatics, etc. This is why it probably will be a while before his canonization.

I'm honestly not sure what I think about this article or the theologians.

Remember not to get too caught up in a feeling of love for the Holy Father that you miss that some people are going to have to do this as a job.

[Laudate_Dominum]

oh my gosh! eleven dudes!! out of a billion Catholics! haha those geniuses. :




but seriously, those reporters must have nothing to do if they're giving press to eleven bozos who are trying to slander the greatest man of the our time.

[N/A Gone]

what ever happen to burning people?

like, lets start with most major media circus people

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 7 2005, 12:21 AM']what ever happen to burning people?

like, lets start with most major media circus people
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burning people was cool. It would give terrible criminals a little taste of hell to move them to repentance before they would otherwise enter eternal flames.

I'm being faciteous, but I do believe some people were burned at the stake out of sincere charity.

[N/A Gone]

or because if you have cancer in a body you pump it full of radiation and cut it out..

flames---not literal?...hehe

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 7 2005, 02:21 AM']what ever happen to burning people?

like, lets start with most major media circus people
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i think that is by far the most intelligent thing you've said since you got here!!!

PROPS

: just jokin bro

[N/A Gone]

ouch...sinner

just cause you dont get TwT doesnt make me non edumacated

[phatcatholic]

who says i don't get it?

: