Not meant as a debate

[Brother Adam]

I know this is going to turn into a debate (people can't help themselves) so I"ll just start the thread here :

I'm looking for a list of saints (or even venerables and blesseds, those will do to) that have spoken in tongues or have been slain in the spirit since charasmatics assert these are not new charisms, there should be unmistakable examples of saints who possessed and practiced these charisms. thanks so much. It will go far to helping me see the validity of the movement.

Adam

[Laudate_Dominum]

I'm no charismatic, but a few things come to mind.

One might point out that the subject is discussed in passing by St. John of the Cross among others. One could appeal to certain ambiguous things in the history of the saints. For example Blessed Angela of Foligno's habits of prayer which at times could be read as charismatic stuff. Or Augustine's discription of behaviour in his diocese that could be taken to be a charismatic renewal of sorts. hehe
But I suppose someone might just point to the apostolic Church and suggest that the modern renewal is a metaphorical "new pentacost" of some sort.

I'm really not the guy to be defending this since I'm not charismatic and don't really know that much about it.. But at least you can have your debate. :
what say ye?

[cmotherofpirl]

Somebody before Duquesne students started doing it.

[Paphnutius]

I think I remember in the Modes of Prayer of St. Dominic something about him groaning and the like during his prayers...

[Aloysius]

of course Augustine also said the gift of tongues was gone from the earth... that doesn't sound like the charismatic renewall :

[Cre8d4Youth]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Dec 9 2005, 12:05 PM']of course Augustine also said the gift of tongues was gone from the earth... that doesn't sound like the charismatic renewall :
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Perhaps he said it was gone because no one was open to it??

so... : to you too! :

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Dec 9 2005, 12:05 PM']of course Augustine also said the gift of tongues was gone from the earth... that doesn't sound like the charismatic renewall :
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maybe he changed his mind later when it started happening in his diocese. :

nah nah nah

j/k., i don't know.. and I'm not that concerned about it anyway,

[Aloysius]

haha yeah I hear ya. but it was precisely because it was supposedly happening in his diocese that he made that comment, because he was convinced most of the people were faking it.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Dec 9 2005, 12:57 PM']haha yeah I hear ya.  but it was precisely because it was supposedly happening in his diocese that he made that comment, because he was convinced most of the people were faking it.
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yeah, that's kind of what I recall.. but shhhh!!

[toledo_jesus]

I think most people [i]now[/i] are faking it. Just what in blazes is being "slain in the spirit" anyway?

[Brother Adam]

Soo....anyone?

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Dec 10 2005, 07:21 PM']Soo....anyone?
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i tried

[phatcatholic]

from the [b][url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14776c.htm"]New Advent article[/url][/b] entitled "Gift of Tongues", we read:[list]In post-Biblical times St. Irenaeus tells us that "many" of his contemporaries were heard "speaking through the Spirit in all kinds (pantodapais) of tongues" ("Contra haer.", V, vii; Eusebius, "Hist. eccl.", V, vii). St. Francis Xavier is said to have preached in tongues unknown to him and St. Vincent Ferrer while using his native tongue was understood in others. From this last phenomenon Biblical glossolaly differs in being what St. Gregory Nazianzen points out as a marvel of speaking and not of hearing. Exegetes observe too that it was never used for preaching, although Sts. Augustine and Thomas seem to have overlooked this detail.
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[LouisvilleFan]

Pope John Paul II openly recognized the validity of the charismatic movement. But really, there's nothing all that special about it. Charismatics aren't somehow holier than the rest of us, like God has found them worthy of a deeper experience. Most of my Catholic relatives are charismatics, but they are Catholic first and charismatic second.

Even though I went on a charismatic Catholic retreat and even had a priest pray with me to receive the gift of tongues, nothing happened. I think God wanted me to focus on some habitual sin in my life because it was on my heart quite a bit. Plus, I was having serious doubts about Christianity in general (this being a few years ago before I decided to become Catholic). Regardless, nobody questioned me about why I didn't show any outward signs of the Spirit. In fact, I found it edifying to see the Spirit working so directly through people.

I also learned that there are very practical reasons for these gifts. Praying in tongues often helps in times when someone wants to focus more on meditation than words, or just to give praise to God when praying in private or with other believers. Some people will just end up laughing or crying for what seems like hours. I've heard testimonies from people who had been very stressed out or tense about a situation, or who hadn't let themselves cry in years and needed to physically release bottled up emotions. While someone laughing or crying uncontrollably may look like silliness, we have no idea what those people have been through. The important thing is to look at the fruits -- if something bears good fruit, you know it's coming from God.

Edited December 11, 2005 by LouisvilleFan

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' date='Dec 11 2005, 02:26 AM']
I also learned that there are very practical reasons for these gifts. Praying in tongues often helps in times when someone wants to focus more on meditation than words, or just to give praise to God when praying in private or with other believers. Some people will just end up laughing or crying for what seems like hours. I've heard testimonies from people who had been very stressed out or tense about a situation, or who hadn't let themselves cry in years and needed to physically release bottled up emotions. While someone laughing or crying uncontrollably may look like silliness, we have no idea what those people have been through. The important thing is to look at the fruits -- if something bears good fruit, you know it's coming from God.
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My probem with this is any good psychologist can have the same effect.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='phatcatholic' date='Dec 11 2005, 01:41 AM']from the [b][url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14776c.htm"]New Advent article[/url][/b] entitled "Gift of Tongues", we read:[list]In post-Biblical times St. Irenaeus tells us that "many" of his contemporaries were heard "speaking through the Spirit in all kinds (pantodapais) of tongues" ("Contra haer.", V, vii; Eusebius, "Hist. eccl.", V, vii). St. Francis Xavier is said to have preached in tongues unknown to him and St. Vincent Ferrer while using his native tongue was understood in others. From this last phenomenon Biblical glossolaly differs in being what St. Gregory Nazianzen points out as a marvel of speaking and not of hearing. Exegetes observe too that it was never used for preaching, although Sts. Augustine and Thomas seem to have overlooked this detail.

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I'm specifically refering to 'charsmatic tongues', not the commonly accepted 'tongues of Acts 2'. Tongues in which neither the person speaking, nor anyone else knows what is being said. Often refered to as 'angelic tongues' or 'tongues of the Holy Spirit'.

[DAF]

I'm with Toledo_Jesus. I think alot of, if not most/all people these days are faking it.
Of course my comment probably doesn't really help with your question...

[journeyman]

Isn't it necessary that someone understand for the gift (or charism) of tongues to be a gift from God? The English-only-speaker who stands up and starts speaking in whatever? The speakers who think they are using their native language, but are heard and understood by others who don't speak that language. (was that a gift of listening or a gift of speaking?)

tongues (in the Acts/Pentecost sense of the word) was [b]used and useful [/b] in evangelization. What is the use of words that aren't understood by anyone present?

(presumption that this is not being taped and will not be seen in 200 years by visiting space aliens, who may wonder how someone could speak their language 200 years before they got here to teach it to us)

[jezic]

^lol

I am not sure what to think about it. I always only thought that the "tongues of Acts 2" were the only ones.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='jezic' date='Dec 12 2005, 08:35 PM']^lol

I am not sure what to think about it. I always only thought that the "tongues of Acts 2" were the only ones.
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From what I understand the person 'praying in tongues' does not have the 'words' to pray in our language' so they submit themselves to the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit prays words for them. I am however not a charasmatic, so PLEASE do not take my word for it, I am repeating what I have been told by charasmatic friends and what I have read from charasmatic literature.