scripture vs philosophy

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I was in a debate in which I got upset. Where the person said that the "catholics ignore scripture, they just debate philosophy instead of going back to the scripture because the scripture has been dealt with by the church, thus they dont teach it"

The person is in the process of converting, but he has been taught scripture very well and is very ecucated on it. So when he sees theologians not even using scripture it seems disrespectful to him.

-what are your thoughts? What if scripture contridicted with a philosophy? How many of you actually use scripture in a debate? cause I know protestants in debate look much different than catholics because protestants argue with scripture, yet from out expertience catholics dont seem to. its almost like the philosophy has a hierarchy over the scripture.

This is a huge problem for protestants in how they view catholics because they assume you dont use the bible. So when an issue seems contridictory to the scripture arguing a philosophy doesnt have the same authority..

know what i mean?

Edited December 18, 2005 by Revprodeji

[Guest JeffCR07]

Rev, you should read John Paul II's Fides et Ratio - On Faith and Reason. The point is that true faith and true reason do not contradict, precisely because Truth does not contradict Truth.

Catholics use scripture in debate and discussion constantly. Catholics use philosophy in debate and discussion constantly. If we are faithful to the Magisterium in our use of either, we will never be led into contradiction.

Your Brother In Christ,

Jeff

[rkwright]

The two go hand in hand, an educated Catholic can use both philosophy, tradition, and scripture to defend the faith.

Maybe one of the reasons Protestants rely on scripture more is because its all thats really authoritive in the Protestant world? Catholics can use the teachings of the Church since we think the church is infalliable. Just an idea...

[philothea]

I can't really choose. Both 1 and 2 are correct...

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='JeffCR07' date='Dec 18 2005, 04:36 PM']Rev, you should read John Paul II's Fides et Ratio - On Faith and Reason. The point is that true faith and true reason do not contradict, precisely because Truth does not contradict Truth.

Catholics use scripture in debate and discussion constantly. Catholics use philosophy in debate and discussion constantly. If we are faithful to the Magisterium in our use of either, we will never be led into contradiction.

[/quote]
I agree. The two are not mutually exclusive, but compliment each other. Two truths cannot contradict eachother so one may use both and...


If he/she truly believes that Catholics do not use or read Scripture send him our way.

[Socrates]

Prove 'em wrong and use Scripture in your debating!

Remember, how you debate depends on who you are debating.
(It's best to use scripture heavily when debating sola-scriptura protestants, but one cannot rely on authority of scripture when debating atheists or agnostics.)

[qfnol31]

Augustine had fun using philosophy and then showing how the Bible took the philosophy and expanded. (Of course the Bible probably didn't really "take" the philosophy per se, but rather it was contained within the Holy Writ).

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he is was making the claims from reading thru many of the debate threads on this site.. as well as seeing catholics in his regular life..

[Socrates]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 18 2005, 06:51 PM']he is was making the claims from reading thru many of the debate threads on this site.. as well as seeing catholics in his regular life..
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[/quote]
Sola scriptura protestants sometimes want to demand the debate be on their own terms - any appeal to anything outside of Scripture is considered "unbiblical" and off-limits. This lacks intellectual honesty, though.

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Well, what if there is a teaching in scripture..yet a philosophy disagrees with it, thus we interpret the scripture in a less-than-natural light so it works with scripture...

That perhaps is the hierarchy of interpretation maybe..

I must admit, as a revert it is weird to debate without scripture. No one else uses it, and it seems to have almost no strength. Just a new arena I guess.

[qfnol31]

I study philosophy to see the link between the two.

[philothea]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 18 2005, 07:01 PM']Well, what if there is a teaching in scripture..yet a philosophy disagrees with it, thus we interpret the scripture in a less-than-natural light so it works with scripture...

That perhaps is the hierarchy of interpretation maybe..

I must admit, as a revert it is weird to debate without scripture. No one else uses it, and it seems to have almost no strength. Just a new arena I guess.
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[/quote]
I know what you mean. I have used scripture in debating here a few times, and it gets totally ignored if not outright contradicted.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 18 2005, 07:01 PM']Well, what if there is a teaching in scripture..yet a philosophy disagrees with it, thus we interpret the scripture in a less-than-natural light so it works with scripture...

That perhaps is the hierarchy of interpretation maybe..

I must admit, as a revert it is weird to debate without scripture. No one else uses it, and it seems to have almost no strength. Just a new arena I guess.
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??

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?

[eddieloudog]

We all must study scripture in order to incorporate it in debate. It is our foundation and our duty as Christians. Our Catholicity is from scripture and to not know it is just as bad as not knowing our Catholic Faith.

besides, there is nothing a Bible thumping person hates more to run into on a sunny Sunday morning than a Catholic who knows Scripture and will debate using it!

Read the Bible, it is our birthright!

[Socrates]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 18 2005, 07:18 PM']?
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[/quote]
Your answer was not clear, especially this statement: "I must admit, as a revert it is weird to debate without scripture. No one else uses it, and it seems to have almost no strength."

What do you mean that "no one else uses it" and "it seems to have almost no strength"??

[N/A Gone]

eddie, great post..

socrates...I have started-participated in many ecumenical dialogue,or just flat out wicked sick debates with many people I love like brothers on both sides of the party. But, I honestly cant think of 1 serious dialogue/debate thing with a catholic where scripture was the primary source of the argument. its typically some person or document..which is fine and dandy, but it bothers me

[eddieloudog]

Thanx rev!

Most of my debates are with Evangelicals or Baptists. There Churches are so young, that they haven't even begun to explore the philosophical aspects of their Religion. So they just try to overwhelm the debate with memorized Bible verses.

So, I fought Fire with Fire and memorized some myself!

[Socrates]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 18 2005, 07:33 PM']eddie, great post..

socrates...I have started-participated in many ecumenical dialogue,or just flat out wicked sick debates with many people I love like brothers on both sides of the party. But, I honestly cant think of 1 serious dialogue/debate thing with a catholic where scripture was the primary source of the argument. its typically some person or document..which is fine and dandy, but it bothers me
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There are many Catholic Apologists out there (many of them former protestants) who do NOT neglect using Scripture, and who know how to debate with "Bible Christians."

I'd recommend reading [i]This Rock [/i]magazine, or the corresponding website which I linked to.
I'd also check out books advertized therein.

Quite simply the best Apologetics resource out there!

[eddieloudog]

Hey Rev, U in Roch too? So am I!