The Raelian Movement

[Guest Rick777]

"Now is the time to stop believing, and begin to understand." - Rael. what?????????????????


i thought this whole Raelian thingy was just a joke.....kinda sad....

[Guest Rick777]

i just went through the website and heard the followers of this cult's testimonials, a couple were catholic, this is so depressing because people actually sincerely believe in this whole alien thing, prayers

[PadreSantiago]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Dec 23 2005, 01:10 PM']other alien scientists.
who made them?
other alien scientists.
who made them?
other alien scientists.
et cetera..

but who made the original alien scientists?
answer: we do, in the future when we invent time travel.

dun dun dun!! 

My thing is cooler than raelianism.. :
[right][snapback]834718[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

YOU MAKE ME LAUGH SIR!



anyway ohhhh OH OH OH !

Ummm I have a question for the raelian....YOUR CRAZY!

hAha no but seriously I'm here all week. Actually I wanted to know weren't the raelians the ones that supposedly cloned a human being but didn't want to provide scientific proof?

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Rick777' date='Dec 24 2005, 02:15 AM']i just went through the website and heard the followers of this cult's testimonials, a couple were catholic, this is so depressing because people actually sincerely believe in this whole alien thing, prayers
[right][snapback]835292[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
hehehe, "I now know who my creator is, they're the elohim and they're people like me". Talk about making God in man's image.
We come from an infinite regress of "people like me". That's cute.

"No more spirits and miracles, saints and virgins... No God, but as a realization of geniuses, who created other geniuses... Now isn't that clear enough?"
Oh yeah, that's clear.. geez.

The logical and philosophical astuteness is staggering.

I can think of plenty of ideas that are in some ways similar to raelianism but even better (IMHO). I just signed up for their message boards so I can share this new wisdom. muahahahaha
One of the main weakness in their thing is the idea of immortality as having your memory "transferred" to a cloned body. This is simply too weak to be called immortality, to say nothing of the fact that even if you could hypothetically "transfer" memory, this new person would simply be a new and distinct person with some of your mental content. But the whole thing presupposes a weak and absurd philosophy of mind and of the human person (or a lack of one altogether). A brain transplant to an identical clone body would make more sense. But of course even if this were possible, the brain would be decaying. But I suppose genetic manipulation could produce a more robust brain.. But in the end, were talking about something far different from immortality anyway.
What seems cooler to me is the idea of a cosmic mind which is the end product of evolution, of which our technology participates in a certain stage of its development. Something like a vast supercomputer, but much more than this. Its processes are trans-dimensional or even trans-temporal, and far beyond any computer or brain as we think of them. We attain immortality by assimilation with this ultimate being. When this being reaches its climactic stage of existence, the result is the conception of new universes, and those who are mentally assimilated into this being participate in this new cosmic aeon as "gods". The only purpose of Raelian "immortality" is to maintain a personal and mental existence long enough to partake of assimilation in this ultimate being.
But this ultimate being is not benevolent, it is beyond good and evil, and it has no "will" to assimilate creatures just because they desire a transcendent state. It simply desires the fullness of consciousness and so in its primitive state it attaches to human nature as avatars, but later is capable of a personal assimilation, thus its conscious threshold is enriched. And when it reaches a supreme consciousness of the current cosmic order, it transcends and effects a new cosmic order. This is the infinite and eternal cycle of cosmic generation. The dynamism latent in the cosmos is the evolution of this supreme conscious being, of which we (and our technology) are just little steps along the way in this ultimate evolution. Any hypothetical extra-terrestrial beings are also neatly incorporated into this schema.

The funny thing is that this sort of thinking is nothing more than ancient gnosticism with a science fiction type face. Authentic Christianity is far more profound and true than gnostic speculation. I've been developing an idea for a science fiction novel for some time which is designed to illustrate this point. In the face of pseudo-scientific gnosticism, Catholic Truth is crushingly more clear and true on every level. To arrive at the apprehension of this truth, my pending book reflects upon the nature and meaning of the cosmos, as well as man and personhood as microcosm. The two paths, as it were, are the objective (outer) and the subjective (inward) and where these coincide with harmony is precisely the Christian Mystery. It is the heart of Christology, and the Christian Revelation of God, that definitely "answer" the fundamental questions regarding man and the universe, not ludicrous gnostic speculation.
From what I've seen thus far, a throrough systematic critique of Raelianism, from a historical, philosophical and scientific perspective would be utterly devastating to its claims. But I also think an articulation of Christian Truth, in the face of the various flavours of pseudo-scientific neo-gnosticism which have materialized, would be quite interesting and useful for the culture today. A complete theology of technology is also something that has been on my mind for some years. In other words, a holistic interpretation of technology, and an elucidation of its meaning, in light of the Christian world-view. What is perhaps most interesting to me, are the parallels between the emerging "mythos" of science, and that of ancient gnostic superstition. But I'm babbling..

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='PadreSantiago' date='Dec 24 2005, 04:51 AM']hAha no but seriously I'm here all week.  Actually I wanted to know weren't the raelians the ones that supposedly cloned a human being but didn't want to provide scientific proof?
[right][snapback]835301[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Yeah, Rael founded cloneaid.. As I recall, that whole PR stunt was a bunch of b.s.

[PadreSantiago]

yeah it'd be like if I said I have a cure cancer but I won't give it to you! AHAHAHAH HOW D O YO U LIK E IT! Or basically like a little kid saying to his friend I could do that but I just don't want to

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Myles' date='Dec 23 2005, 08:32 PM']Should you not be a troll, and for now I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt (I know phatpham but there's a Prince Myshkin in all of us...) would you care to defend this statement? Pointing out wherein you find errors within the Catholic system? Perhaps one of our Church Scholars would be able to answer you?

INXC
Myles
[right][snapback]835076[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
But certainly Catholicism is far more than a "system", it is a corporate and personal revelation of God which unites man and God in a living relationship. Raelianism seems to be really grounded in a devotion to their Gnostic oracle (Rael). If Christianity was nothing more than a doctrinal system, I might entertain any old religious or quasi-religious sect that popped up (although I must say, Raelianism would yet lack any appeal), but the fact is, the life of the Church is so much more than this. The sheer weight of her truth, the lives of the saints and ultimately the power of the Spirit testify to this fact. But no doubt the world, and the prince of this world, seeks to manifest an adversary who can drown her. It is sad that two of those testimonies were from people who had at one time been so close to the Church, but had never known her. They had been so near to Christ, but had never found rest at His bosom.
Men like Rael (and there are many others like him) are false prophets, and false shepherds who seek to devour souls.
One of the more sinister lies of Raelianism (and many other similar cults) are their moral teachings; immoral or amoral teachings would be more precise. I am considering devoting some of my fuzzy bunny time to their message boards.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='PadreSantiago' date='Dec 24 2005, 05:28 AM']yeah it'd be like if I said I have a cure cancer but I won't give it to you! AHAHAHAH HOW D O YO U LIK E IT!  Or basically like a little kid saying to his friend I could do that but I just don't want to
[right][snapback]835306[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Yeah, in my opinion they probably just wanted media attention, and they need to maintain a certain mystique since cloneaid is an aspect of a cult, not a legitimate scientific institution.

I found these newspaper quotes:
[quote]According to two journalists who infiltrated Cloneaid, the group's president bragged about the free publicity and notoriety Cloneaid received following several announcements that it had cloned babies across the world.[/quote]

[quote]The Montreal Gazette reports that Boisselier laughed at a July meeting about the publicity the group had obtained, saying, "Come, my good journalist friends, ask me if we did all that to have free publicity. Yes!"

"When I amused myself playing with the journalists," Boisselier said recalling one of the cloning announcement news conferences, "you had to see what a zoo it was that day."

Reporter Brigitte McCann, who spent time with the Raelians, said that the alleged cloned infant was a "taboo topic" among members of the sect. McCann said, "They didn't want to talk about it," adding, "They were very, very careful"

"And Boisselier, herself, told me she didn't set foot in the laboratory because she was afraid of being followed there," McCann, a Journal de Montrйal reporter, added.

Rael, the group's founder, has made other remarks that made it appear the cloned babies were nothing more than a publicity stunt.

"Even if you want to think we only did that for publicity, it's marvelous," Rael told the Canadian Press recently, "If that's it, we are publicity geniuses. And if it is true, we are scientific geniuses, too"

Cloneaid never provided proof that any babies were born or that they were cloned and scientists in the field doubted their claims from the beginning.[/quote]
That's all pretty demented and psychologically disturbed if you ask me. From what I've seen Rael fits the profile of the megalomaniac cult leader.

I don't see any reason based on their teachings to assume they would feel any obligation to tell the truth about anything. Lying for the sake of the agenda might even be considered "good". I've encountered many lies and twisted propaganda on the site, and related Raelian sites. It's creepy.

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='Raelian1' date='Dec 23 2005, 09:36 PM']Our creators were created by other scientists from another planet and those creators were created by other scientists from another planet and so on ad infinitum. There is no starting point. If we don't destroy ourselves, we too will create life on other planets.
[right][snapback]835134[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
You realize that a series ad infinitum has no effecient cause right?

[Laudate_Dominum]

And they definitely aren't pro-life. I just found an article on one of their "official" sites called "More abortions mean less crime". I don't need to explain what it said. *throws up*

More abortions? Hmm.. The teachings of this sect are satanic. I hate to put it so bluntly, but its true on so many levels.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Paphnutius' date='Dec 24 2005, 05:50 AM']You realize that a series ad infinitum has no effecient cause right?
[right][snapback]835311[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Well, I guess they start with the idea that their Gnostic oracle Rael, was received by extra-terrestrials and given a higher wisdom, a secret knowledge. Thus I doubt it needs to be entirely vindicated by conventional logic and philosophy, or even science. That would be all too convenient anyway. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[Paphnutius]

Also, one would think that if they could produce human cloning and if they were contacted by some super genius human race, they would have a better website.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Paphnutius' date='Dec 24 2005, 05:58 AM']Also, one would think that if they could produce human cloning and if they were contacted by some super genius human race, they would have a better website.
[right][snapback]835314[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

[Fidei Defensor]

" In fact, we were created "in their image" as explained in the Bible.

He told Rael that:

"We were the ones who designed all life on earth"
"You mistook us for gods"
"We were at the origin of your main religions"
"Now that you are mature enough to understand this,we would like to enter official contact through an embassy"

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote][b]Dr. Phil inquires: "Who was it that christened you as 'Your Holiness'?"

Rael replies: "If you are talking directly to the Catholic pope or the Dalai Lama, would you ask this question?"

"Absolutely," answers Dr. Phil.

Rael disagrees: "I don't think so. I think it is a kind of discriminatory question and I will not answer this question. I can't imagine you talking directly to the Catholic pope and saying 'Why do I have to call you Your Highness?' I don't think you would do that."

"Well," Dr. Phil responds, "I'm not talking to the pope. I'm talking to you."

"And I am the pope," replies Rael. "I am the pope of the Raelain religion and you have to respect me as much as you respect the Catholic Pope. I consider it that you are not doing it, so bye-bye."

"Bye-bye," replies Dr. Phil. "I don't think he likes me very much."[/b][/quote]

[img]http://www.drphil.com/assets/6/6b9a27b573aed3cf23ad403eba269ae6.jpg[/img]http://www.drphil.com/assets/6/6b9a27b573aed3cf23ad403eba269ae6.jpg

[Akalyte]

ok so what about:

Miracles
Eucharistic miracles
miraculous cures
apparitions
etc..?

I suppose they are all lies huh? all though many miracles and apparitions have been witnessed by thousands of people at a time.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

[quote name='Raelian1' date='Dec 23 2005, 10:36 PM']Our creators were created by other scientists from another planet and those creators were created by other scientists from another planet and so on ad infinitum. There is no starting point. If we don't destroy ourselves, we too will create life on other planets.
[right][snapback]835134[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
So this infinite chain of creators just came into existence at one point? There can be no infinite regression.

No offense, but I think Rael is just looking for attention.

[philothea]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Dec 24 2005, 05:08 AM']hehehe, "I now know who my creator is, they're the elohim and they're people like me". Talk about making God in man's image.

[much snipped]

The funny thing is that this sort of thinking is nothing more than ancient gnosticism with a science fiction type face. Authentic Christianity is far more profound and true than gnostic speculation. I've been developing an idea for a science fiction novel for some time which is designed to illustrate this point. In the face of pseudo-scientific gnosticism, Catholic Truth is crushingly more clear and true on every level. To arrive at the apprehension of this truth, my pending book reflects upon the nature and meaning of the cosmos, as well as man and personhood as microcosm. The two paths, as it were, are the objective (outer) and the subjective (inward) and where these coincide with harmony is precisely the Christian Mystery. It is the heart of Christology, and the Christian Revelation of God, that definitely "answer" the fundamental questions regarding man and the universe, not ludicrous gnostic speculation.
From what I've seen thus far, a throrough systematic critique of Raelianism, from a historical, philosophical and scientific perspective would be utterly devastating to its claims. But I also think an articulation of Christian Truth, in the face of the various flavours of pseudo-scientific neo-gnosticism which have materialized, would be quite interesting and useful for the culture today. A complete theology of technology is also something that has been on my mind for some years. In other words, a holistic interpretation of technology, and an elucidation of its meaning, in light of the Christian world-view. What is perhaps most interesting to me, are the parallels between the emerging "mythos" of science, and that of ancient gnostic superstition. But I'm babbling..
[right][snapback]835303[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Been up all night, I see...

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Ave Maria Totus Tuus' date='Dec 23 2005, 07:31 PM']"WE ARE FROM FRANCE."
[right][snapback]835022[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]


It's a good movie.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

[quote name='Paphnutius' date='Dec 24 2005, 07:58 AM']Also, one would think that if they could produce human cloning and if they were contacted by some super genius human race, they would have a better website.
[right][snapback]835314[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
lol, I was going to say the same thing...

Also, the "space ship" thing on the home page looks like the one from that old movie... where that kid is abducted by aliens (or rather, a spaceship thing) and then when he comes back it's been like 10years, but he hasn't aged at all. Maybe the leader saw the movie and REALLY liked it.