having an education:

[Aloysius]

I would say that having an education is not always synonymous with having a degree. From my sampling of people I've met with degrees, I'd say a few of them have a good education but a whole bunch of them are the most ignorant and out of touch people in the world.

Anyway, there should always be common people, people whose only real concern is raising their families and providing for them. For those people an education may or may not be a good thing depending on the individual. But they should always be free to be simple and not worry so much about such things, let the intellectuals of academia do all that stuff. I think there can be a great freedom in the simplicity of "uneducated" people that is a treasure to mankind in itself.

[qfnol31]

[quote]is an education that has not fulfilled its purpose really an education?[/quote]

Exactly! It's not! ("Learning experience")

[qfnol31]

By the way, I think that many modern standards of education are fact learning...

[avemaria40]

Education does not make a person inherently better but it is very beneficial, obviously (where would our doctors, lawyers, teachers, hairdressers, etc. be without it?) God can use education to serve His Kingdom, and there are many educated saints, but it doesn't always make you a better person, sometimes it can make you too proud, but a lot of things can make any one too proud.

[avemaria40]

Education does not make a person inherently better but it is very beneficial, obviously (where would our doctors, lawyers, teachers, hairdressers, etc. be without it?) God can use education to serve His Kingdom, and there are many educated saints, but it doesn't always make you a better person, sometimes it can make you too proud, but a lot of things can make any one too proud.

However, one cannot expect to be free and ignorant at the same time

[Cathurian]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Dec 26 2005, 12:03 AM']Anyway, there should always be common people, people whose only real concern is raising their families and providing for them.  For those people an education may or may not be a good thing depending on the individual.  But they should always be free to be simple and not worry so much about such things, let the intellectuals of academia do all that stuff.  I think there can be a great freedom in the simplicity of "uneducated" people that is a treasure to mankind in itself.
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Wait a minute. By "uneducated" people, do you mean people who have chosen not to educate themselves?

If there are people "free" to be simple, are these same people "free" to educate themselves as well? No one's being forced into remaining uneducated, are they?

[philothea]

[quote name='Cathurian' date='Dec 26 2005, 10:54 AM'] Wait a minute. By "uneducated" people, do you mean people who have chosen not to educate themselves?

If there are people "free" to be simple, are these same people "free" to educate themselves as well? No one's being forced into remaining uneducated, are they?
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If by educated you mean paying to attend an institution and sit in a class and be instructed, why yes, some people are unable to do so.

If people mean "ignorant" when they say "uneducated" I dearly wish they'd use the more accurate word.

[Aloysius]

I'm not that concerned with whether they "have the oppurtunity" to get educated, whether they get to choose to be educated or not, or whatever. I care much more that they shouldn't be forced to have some expensive education to be "successful". it is far worse to force people to have some expensive "education" than for them to be "forced to remain uneducated" in my humble opinion.

if someone doesn't have the oppurtunity to be educated, that doesn't mean they are not "free to be educated". there's something nice about a sort of feudalist system where the kids can take up the parent's trade and get married and raise a family and all that. not for everyone, but when that's the way their lives work out I don't think it's too bad.

[Fiat_Voluntas_Tua]

Here's my two cents.

As I am a 2nd year college student, asspiring for degrees in Philosophy and Theology, I hold education very high on the hierarchy of goods. Plato thought that ones knowledge of ethics is what made that person ethical. The more one trully 'knew' about ethics the better the person. This is not true because we have a will, not just an intellect. Thus, we have to Love the good, not just know the truth. (It is like what St. Paul says in Romans 7:15, "I do what i don't want to do, and I don't do what i ought" or something along those lines.)

However, it is made evident that it is quite difficult (i would venture to say impossible) to love that which you do not know. How can you love someone if you don't know that person. Granted you can love them inasmuch as they are human. But you love those which you know better than others. We call these people "friends", and we even love certain friends more than others: "best friends". We can only love people insofar that we know them.

We can love God in so far that we know Him. However, if we never come to know God as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; we can still love Him in other people, and still love the "GOOD" in everything. (Since God is good, if all you know is good in others and not God, you are still loving God, but in an indirect way).

With this said, the more you know someone, the more you are able to love them. For example:

It is impossible to love someone you don't know.
It is possible to love someone you just met.
It is likely you will love the person you talk to once a week.
(So on and so forth...)

Thus a greater knowledge of Truth gives us a greater capacity to Love the good of the Truth. Thus if we study God we CAN love Him more completely. It is just like a boy finding out(studying) what his sweetheart likes (i.e. flowers, chocolate, a glass of sprite with only 2 ice cubes.), This boy is able to express his Love for the girl of his dreams. The same follows for loving God.

But Loving God is something more than merely knowing Him. (~St. Augustine)

(there is still a whole lot more to add to the pot, but i have to go.)

The more you know someone, the more you love that person. The more you love that person the more you want to get to know that person.

[photosynthesis]

are you saying that people who don't have formal eduation in theology don't know God? Going to a class, reading a few books and listening to a teacher talk about something doesn't help you to know and love God better. It just helps you know more [i]about[/i] God. There are different ways of knowing and acquiring knowledge.

Christ is present in His priests, since they are His chosen ministers of His sacraments. We can know Christ through experiencing the Sacraments.

Christ is present in Holy Scripture, because He is the Word of God made flesh. To know Scripture is to know Christ.

Christ is present in The Eucharist. To know and love the Eucharist is to know Christ. When we kneel before the Tabernacle we are sitting at the feet of the greatest Professer in existence, at the School of the Eucharist.

And, finally, Christ is present in the poor. As Blessed Jeanne Jugan, foundress of the Little Sisters of the Poor once said, "The poor are Our Lord." We all must learn how to see Jesus in the poor, the sick, and the marginalized members of society.

Formal education in Theology helps you to know about Christ and it can deepen your experience of Scripture, the Sacraments and help you to see Jesus in the poor.

Also, I would make the distinction between ordinary catechesis of the faithful, i.e. knowing the basics of the Faith, and higher education in theology.

[Fiat_Voluntas_Tua]

I agree. St. Thomas Aquinas said that he learned more from meditating upon a Crucifix, then he did reading any and all books.

I was not strictly saying that it is either, scholarly knowledge or ignorance. The beauty of the difference between scientific knowledge and divine knowledge, is that divine knowledge can be revealed in extraordinary ways (i.e. the Church, sacraments, priests, etc.), not just books and reading.

Once again Aquinas said (i believe on his death bed) that after he had a vision he accounted all his writtings as nothing. That says a lot to anyone who has ever study Thomistic Philosophy/Theology.

But if given the means to know more about God, we should. St. Josemaria Escriva said, "For the modern apostle, an hour of study is an hour of prayer." For me studying and reading theology is a meditation on the mystery of God. Learning and studying 'about' God gives me a slight bit more ability to know God. But if God gives someone the grace of knowing Himself (Divine Image, like St. Faustina) then of course that will FAR surpass any book read. But if it comes to playing Halo or reading some Catechism, I would like to choose the catechism (sometimes that doesn't happen )

Growing in knowledge of God through a formal education can produce many other virtues: fortitude, temperance, docility, etc. But just one way.

Mother Theresa used to say her sisters would spend an hour every morning before Jesus in the Eucharist, and then spend the rest of the day in adoration of Jesus in the poor.

[Era Might]

[quote]A man may be learned in dogma, and at the same time proud or greedy or cruel: knowledge does not supply for love if love is absent. Similarly a virtuous man may be ignorant, but ignorance is not a virtue. It would be a strange God who could be loved better by being known less. Love of God is not the same thing as knowledge of God; love of God is immeasurably more important than knowledge of God; but if a man loves God knowing a little about Him, he should love God more from knowing more about Him: for every new thing known about God is a new reason for loving Him. It is true that some get vast love from lesser knowledge: it is true even that some get vast light from lesser knowledge: for love helps sight. But sight helps love too.

--Frank Sheed[/quote]

[homeschoolmom]

I think education can make you a better version of yourself, but doesn't add to your value.