Teatime with Freud

[rkwright]

[quote name='philothea' date='Jan 5 2006, 03:24 PM']
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are those the scones that were promised in this thread?!

[homeschoolmom]

Sometimes a biscotti's just a biscotti...

[shortnun]

[quote name='hugheyforlife' date='Jan 5 2006, 03:04 PM']here's a question... maybe off topic? yeah maybe a little but i'll ask anyway. is it generally so that a girl befriends people whom she could never see herself with? i am not saying that it would be odd that one should befriend even those whom she could not see herself marrying - it just seems odd that i tend to socialize with people whom i could never see marrying and generally find them to be better comany. that was a really horrible off topic question/remark.
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I define "people I'm phsyically/sexually/romantically attracted to" in a different category than those friends who I "share things in common with." So when I think of the men in my life--some of whom I could "see myself with" and some of whom I don't--I socialize with them because we have something(s) in common. Some of them when to school with me, some I've worked with, others are friends of friends, etc. It's not off topic, at all. I think it's very relavant.

[i][Aside for hughey.... have you posted any of this on the marriage thread in the Vocations forum? I don't always read it, so I'm not as up to date as I could be. But I think it's material for a great discussion.][/i]

[quote name='hugheyforlife' date='Jan 5 2006, 03:16 PM']heres something not a lot of people know: if i had to choose one family from any movie or tv show that i would most like to be a part of (in the mother/wife role), it would be lynette and her family on desperate housewives. maybe thats a bad sign though.
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If I'm not being intrusive, may I ask for you to futher explain yourself? My first reaction was not "Ooooh, that's bad!" Yes yes, I do watch the show... moving right along, I can see Lynette as having a loving, supportive husband with wonderful (though at times, rowdy) children. Nothin' wrong with dat.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Tata126' date='Jan 5 2006, 03:55 PM']I think the bad boy phenomenon is caused more than anything by girls wanting strong men, and not seeing enough of them in society.  We naturally want men who can protect us, but society tells men that they're supposed to be "sensitive," which immediately morphs into "weak," and far too many men listen.  Then when girls see a man whose general attitude is "to hell with everybody," and who seems likely to take on and beat any comer in a fight, they're inclined to be attracted to him at least initially, because he's manifestly strong.

So gentlemen, being sensitive is good, but don't let it get in the way of your identity as knights and warriors.
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Very true, I think.

Today, men tend to be either brutes or wimps. We need to stive for the ideal of the knight or the gentlemen, in which one's masculinity is not denied, but channeled into a higher purpose.

Women like "bad boys" mainly because they like testosterone.

Some women, however, seem to have the opposite problem, and go after over-sensitive weaklings whom they figure they can dominate and manipulate.

Dames - I'll never figure 'em out!

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Jan 5 2006, 07:52 PM']Very true, I think.

Today, men tend to be either brutes or wimps.  We need to stive for the ideal of the knight or the gentlemen, in which one's masculinity is not denied, but channeled into a higher purpose.

Women like "bad boys" mainly because they like testosterone.

Some women, however, seem to have the opposite problem, and go after over-sensitive weaklings whom they figure they can dominate and manipulate.

Dames - I'll never figure 'em out!
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There's nothing wrong at all with a manly man. Normally when I think of a "bad boy", I'm thinking of a bad boy in the sense of an immature jerk.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Jan 5 2006, 08:06 PM']There's nothing wrong at all with a manly man. Normally when I think of a "bad boy", I'm thinking of a bad boy in the sense of an immature jerk.
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That's what I meant.

Immature or stupid women often (falsely) equate being an immature jerk with masculinity.

A gentlemen is a manly man, and does not behave like an immature jerk, but treats women with courtesy and respect.

The gentlemen is likewise distinguished from the "sensitive guy" who lacks strong masculinity and acts weak or effeminate.
(This I think is also true of many "bad boy" jerks. They are insecure about their own manhood, and thus try to "prove" or assert their masculinity by being jerks.)

[Tata126]

And of course this is all because of the movement to make women independent of men, and also somehow the same as men...now, men don't have a societal place distinct from women because women don't have a societal place distinct from men, and the result is the metrosexual or overly-sensitive man who doesn't know what it means to be a man. Also, I'd guess, the high rates of single motherhood are an important cause.

[franciscanheart]

i dont even try to evaluate the cause... mostly my head does this number when i do:

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Tata126' date='Jan 5 2006, 08:26 PM']And of course this is all because of the movement to make women independent of men, and also somehow the same as men...now, men don't have a societal place distinct from women because women don't have a societal place distinct from men, and the result is the metrosexual or overly-sensitive man who doesn't know what it means to be a man.  Also, I'd guess, the high rates of single motherhood are an important cause.
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:applause:

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Tata126' date='Jan 5 2006, 09:26 PM']And of course this is all because of the movement to make women independent of men, and also somehow the same as men...now, men don't have a societal place distinct from women because women don't have a societal place distinct from men, and the result is the metrosexual or overly-sensitive man who doesn't know what it means to be a man.  Also, I'd guess, the high rates of single motherhood are an important cause.
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something struck me after the third or fourth time of reading that... high rates of single motherhood? how is that a cause of a metro-sexual man? im way confused.

i dont entirely disagree with the making of women more like men in the early theories of "advancing womanhood" -- i do, however, disagree with some of today's pushes to make women more like men and still seperate from them.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='hugheyforlife' date='Jan 5 2006, 09:51 PM']something struck me after the third or fourth time of reading that... high rates of single motherhood? how is that a cause of a metro-sexual man? im way confused.
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No father around, a general lack of good male role models, etc. Boys raised by a single mother are statistically more likely to suffer from all sorts of things, many of which pertain to sexuality.

[Tata126]

Well, a boy raised by a single mother usually doesn't have an immediate example of fatherhood and what it means to grow up to be a man. Not to say that no children raised by single mothers have father-figures, or that all boys raised by single mothers grow up to be effeminate, but it's just a lot more common for the single main influence in such a child's life to be female, which would hinder the child from understanding what it means to be a man.

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Jan 5 2006, 10:55 PM']No father around, a general lack of good male role models, etc. Boys raised by a single mother are statistically more like to suffer from all sorts of things, many of which pertain to sexuality.
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right. duh. sorry. a little slow if we havent figured that out already. understand now.

[Tata126]

Yes, what Laudate_Dominum said.

[franciscanheart]

let me add that i do not believe the problem is all the man's in this situation. obviously if women are becoming more like men, there is a problem with women these days too. i would even venture to say that it is more the woman's fault that these things are happening than it is the man's. growing up people tell young girls that they can do anything the boys can do and there isnt a difference in the world between them except in physicality. women are the ones who made the push to be more like men and to take on more of their responsibilities. i would even go as far as saying that women leave most of the lasting impressions of what young girls should grow up to be. if the mother was strong and outgoing and believed that a woman had just as much right, or just as much obligation, to do what the man did, then i believe her children, most especially her daughters, would grow up the same way. the raising of young girls is out of whack too. women need to be taught from a young age what men are supposed to be and what they are supposed to be and do in relation to the man. there need to be women in the world who understand their roles and who might help these confused men find their place again. men only have as much control as they establish and if they choose not to establish it, the woman should give it to him. maybe given the responsibility the man will step up and take over.

[shortnun]

[quote name='Tata126' date='Jan 5 2006, 10:56 PM']Well, a boy raised by a single mother usually doesn't have an immediate example of fatherhood and what it means to grow up to be a man.  Not to say that no children raised by single mothers have father-figures,  or that all boys raised by single mothers grow up to be effeminate, but it's just a lot more common for the single main influence in such a child's life to be female, which would hinder the child from understanding what it means to be a man.
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Personally, I'm more concerned with how parents today (be it a single mother, single father, grandparent, two parent household, older sibling, gay couple) instills God-fearing, faith-filled values and beliefs in that child and how they aid their him/her in forming a moral conscience.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='shortnun' date='Jan 5 2006, 11:06 PM']Personally, I'm more concerned with how parents today (be it a single mother, single father, grandparent, two parent household, older sibling, gay couple) instills God-fearing, faith-filled  values and beliefs in that child and how they aid their him/her in forming a moral conscience.
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I'd just like to give props to you for sporting your Catechesis of the Good Shepherd stuff in your sig...definitely important to this.

[shortnun]

[quote name='hugheyforlife' date='Jan 5 2006, 11:01 PM']growing up people tell young girls that they can do anything the boys can do and there isnt a difference in the world between them except in physicality. women are the ones who made the push to be more like men and to take on more of their responsibilities. i would even go as far as saying that women leave most of the lasting impressions of what young girls should grow up to be. [b]if the mother was strong and outgoing and believed that a woman had just as much right, or just as much obligation, to do what the man did, then i believe her children, most especially her daughters, would grow up the same way. [/b]
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[Emphasis mine.] Hughey, I respectfully disagree. Every day I thank God that my parents--a mother and a father--instilled in me the beliefs that they did. They gave me the skills and confidence necessary to go out into the world and develop my own beliefs in light of personal experience and in light of my Christian faith. I am so thankful that my mother (and father) held so much faith in me from such a young age. I was told that I could do whatever I wanted to do... that the world was my oyster. They instilled in me respect, responsibility, and a desire to accomplish my wildest dreams. And it it with their continued support and prayers that I am were I am today.

[quote name='hugheyforlife' date='Jan 5 2006, 11:01 PM']there need to be women in the world who understand their roles and who might help these confused men find their place again. men only have as much control as they establish and if they choose not to establish it, the woman should give it to him. maybe given the responsibility the man will step up and take over.
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I see a greater need in the world for men and women who see each other and images of God before their very own eyes. By our Christian baptism, we are given the authority and responsibility to bring forth the Kingdom of God. Pardon me, but I believe that respect and appreciation are of more importance in that mission than carefully outlining social boundaries and roles that men and women are to uphold.

[shortnun]

[quote name='Raphael' date='Jan 5 2006, 11:07 PM']I'd just like to give props to you for sporting your Catechesis of the Good Shepherd stuff in your sig...definitely important to this.
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How so? Are you being serious or sarcastic?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='shortnun' date='Jan 5 2006, 11:18 PM']How so? Are you being serious or sarcastic?
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Quite serious. I'm a catechetics major at Franciscan...I've sat in on CGS...it's absolutely amazing!