Lookee Here...

[Peppermint Patty]

Hi all. I am from christianity.com. Unfortunately, I came over here more out of curiosity than anything else, not really for debate. But I didn't know if there was another forum I could post in. So I don't know if I'll be of any entertainment for you all! I am not a Catholic, but I am a saved Christian. God is my Father, Christ is my Savior, and the Holy Spirit lives within me. I don't agree with a lot of what you guys believe, but I think here is the main problem: you don't believe that we can be saved without the Catholic church and a lot of evangelicals don't believe you can be saved while remaining in the Catholic church. I don't believe that, I believe the only requirement is that one has accepted Christ as their Savior. Although I don't believe salvation is through works, I do believe that anyone who is saved will produce good works in their life.

I doubt you all will get earthless, or Bruce, or Tony to visit over here for debate, where they will be outnumbered. I used to like them, but I now realize they are on a righteous agenda to prove themselves right above anyone else. They are not working through the Holy Spirit, which is obvious by the way they respond not only in the Catholic thread, but also other threads. I don't suggest you all go over there, you'll just be ripped apart, and the moderators will applaud when you are.

Anyway, with that said, I guess I can ask this question of you guys. Do you believe I can not be saved unless I go through Catechism classes and become a member of the Catholic church?

[frozencell]

It's funny how Protestants try to make it look persecution look so innocent.

Now on the thread it has been updated to say that no avatars should promote Catholicism or be anti-Catholic, but at the same time they have to following rules:

2. Do not promote Catholic doctrines that are against christianity.com's Statement of Faith, the Ten Commandments and/or the Nicene Creed.

3. No name calling of any doctrines [Catholic, Protestant or any other] - let's stay civil and discuss in a way that edifies rather than puts down.

4. Do not quote other books (this includes the Catholic Bible), misrepresenting them as Holy Scriptures.

5. No praying to Mary and/or other saints or telling others to do so.

Regarding #5-- Like they can tell me who and who not to pray to....sounds like ancient Biblical times of Christian persecution to me....anyone else agree?

But anyhow, the reason for the post...I was reading through their Statement of Faith and, while almost all of it was Biblically sound, I was disturbed in finding the following:

We do not deny God’s ability to guide men by His Spirit, through prayer and meditation, through other individuals, and through circumstances. However, we believe that there is no extra-Biblical revelation that we know to be inerrant, whether other texts or individuals claiming divine inspiration. We believe that any person claiming to have direct, authoritative, inerrant revelation from God other than the Bible is a false teacher.

Even most of this sounds good to me. But I would like to highlight the last sentence. If this is truly what the makers and moderators of Christianity.com believe (even though I know it's an underhanded attempt to take a stab at the Catholic church...) I would like to know how they plan on explaining a lot of the Bible (i.e. Daniel's explanation of the king's dreams, Joseph's explanation of the king's dream, the ENTIRE book of Revelation....just to name a few...) since all of these are direct and inerrant revalations from God Himself. According to them a lot of the most important men, and in some cases disciples of Christ, in the Bible are nothing but self-ordained false prophets that deserve nothing better than the flames of hell.

Who's with me?

:angry:

[Lil Red]

Hi all.  I am from christianity.com.  Unfortunately, I came over here more out of curiosity than anything else, not really for debate.  But I didn't know if there was another forum I could post in.  So I don't know if I'll be of any entertainment for you all!    I am not a Catholic, but I am a saved Christian.  God is my Father, Christ is my Savior, and the Holy Spirit lives within me.  I don't agree with a lot of what you guys believe, but I think here is the main problem: you don't believe that we can be saved without the Catholic church and a lot of evangelicals don't believe you can be saved while remaining in the Catholic church.  I don't believe that, I believe the only requirement is that one has accepted Christ as their Savior.  Although I don't believe salvation is through works, I do believe that anyone who is saved will produce good works in their life.

I doubt you all will get earthless, or Bruce, or Tony to visit over here for debate, where they will be outnumbered.  I used to like them, but I now realize they are on a righteous agenda to prove themselves right above anyone else.  They are not working through the Holy Spirit, which is obvious by the way they respond not only in the Catholic thread, but also other threads.  I don't suggest you all go over there, you'll just be ripped apart, and the moderators will applaud when you are.

Anyway, with that said, I guess I can ask this question of you guys.  Do you believe I can not be saved unless I go through Catechism classes and become a member of the Catholic church?

welcome Peppermint Patty! If you'd like you can check in under Open Mic. There's a Check In thread there.

I would like to say welcome to you! If you don't want to debate, that's cool. We've got other stuff going on than that (the Under 20 lounge, Hip Hop lounge, Open Mic, Q & A about Catholicism, Prayer Room, The Word). Anyway, I for one hope you will stay and dialogue with us.

I would like to commend you when you say that you realize there are people on that board who have an agenda to prove themselves right about anyone else. Most people wouldn't take a stand like that and I commend you for it.

We are all called to love one another, and to act charitably to one another in our walk with God.

God bless!

[frozencell]

Peppermint Patty...

I recognized you from the other forum and I would like to take some time to thank you for reaching out to somewhere where, as you say, "you are outnumbered". The intention is not to get you alone and beat you with a Cathicism or anything, no one here wants to do that. I would also like to say that I appreciate your comments on salvation and having the integrity to say that some Protestants are not living Christ for the sake of being correct no matter what. I am sure there are some Catholics who are the same way because, hey, everyone is human and flawed. I can't speak for the entire Catholic church or anything because I, myself, am recently affiliated with the Catholic church as a former lifelong Protestant. I personally don't believe that a certain affiliation can get you into heaven unless that affiliation is with God Above. Yes, I am a Catholic, I know God is my Saviour and the only way to heaven. Funny enough, these two things don't clash because the Catholic church teaches that the only way to heaven is through Christ unlike some popular misconception (I have been guilty of this misconceptions in the past too) such as worshipping Mary as a god and other things.

If you have any other questions I am sure that all here would be glad to clarify anything that you are wondering about. Thank you again for your openness and willingness to learn before making judgements.

[cmotherofpirl]

Hi all.  I am from christianity.com.  Unfortunately, I came over here more out of curiosity than anything else, not really for debate.  But I didn't know if there was another forum I could post in.  So I don't know if I'll be of any entertainment for you all!    I am not a Catholic, but I am a saved Christian.  God is my Father, Christ is my Savior, and the Holy Spirit lives within me.  I don't agree with a lot of what you guys believe, but I think here is the main problem: you don't believe that we can be saved without the Catholic church and a lot of evangelicals don't believe you can be saved while remaining in the Catholic church.  I don't believe that, I believe the only requirement is that one has accepted Christ as their Savior.  Although I don't believe salvation is through works, I do believe that anyone who is saved will produce good works in their life.

I doubt you all will get earthless, or Bruce, or Tony to visit over here for debate, where they will be outnumbered.  I used to like them, but I now realize they are on a righteous agenda to prove themselves right above anyone else.  They are not working through the Holy Spirit, which is obvious by the way they respond not only in the Catholic thread, but also other threads.  I don't suggest you all go over there, you'll just be ripped apart, and the moderators will applaud when you are.

Anyway, with that said, I guess I can ask this question of you guys.  Do you believe I can not be saved unless I go through Catechism classes and become a member of the Catholic church?

Welcome to phatmass.

Catholics don't consider themselves"saved" like protestants do. Baptism justifies us and gives us entrance into the kingdom. We are saved at death if we are in a state of grace. WE don't consider salvation certain before then, because humans have an inclination to sin, and sin can keep you out of heaven.

Catholics don't believe in salvation thru works, however we believe if you have faiths then you will be doing works. James says faith without works is dead , and we believe that.

We believe that people are saved thru Jesus Christ who is found sacramentally in the Catholic Church. All people baptised are linked together in his kingdom. To be saved you must somehow be linked to Jesus Christ in His Church.

[dUSt]

:sadder:

Your posts were removed due to violations of TOS 17. You may not promote Romanism on this site, nor link to a Romanist site. Future violations will result in the suspension of your account.

------------------------

Soli Deo Gloria,

Tony

[cmotherofpirl]

whose account is that?

cowards!

Edited December 15, 2003 by cmotherofpirl

[foundsheep]

:sadder:

Your posts were removed due to violations of TOS 17. You may not promote Romanism on this site, nor link to a Romanist site. Future violations will result in the suspension of your account.

------------------------

Soli Deo Gloria,

Tony

:rolling: what the...LOL

[dUSt]

I posted a link to phatmass and invited their members to come talk to us over here. That's the private message I received from their moderator.

It reminds me of the Jehovah Witnesses that came to my door and refused to read a piece of paper I gave them--yet, they leave entire books with me. It weird. In that very same thread, they were talking about how Catholics are "brain washed" by our Church--yet, I don't ever recall our Church telling us that we are prohibited from reading non-Catholic stuff.

Oh well, at least Peppermint Patty saw the link before it was removed! I hope you learn a lot about Catholicism while you're here Patty--and if you ever feel unwelcome or feel like you're being attacked--let me know, and I'll take care of it.

God bless.

[DesiringMore]

I do think that is a sad site if you can't defend what they say...i don't agree with that...that is one thing that i've found, for the most part at phatmass, is the willingness to listen and allow questions and then to answer as best you know how...to not be Catholic but still be welcome to ask questions is one reason that i am drawn to Phatmass...

[Peppermint Patty]

Welcome to phatmass.

Catholics don't consider themselves"saved" like protestants do. Baptism justifies us and gives us entrance into the kingdom. We are saved at death if we are in a state of grace. WE don't consider salvation certain before then, because  humans have an inclination to sin, and sin can keep  you out of heaven.

Catholics don't believe in salvation thru works, however we believe if you have faiths then you will be doing works. James says faith without works is dead , and we believe that.

We believe that people are saved thru Jesus Christ who is found sacramentally in the Catholic Church. All people baptised are linked together in his kingdom. To be saved you must somehow be  linked to Jesus Christ in His Church.

I am not sure if I'm using the quote option right, so sorry if this gets messed up.

I must somehow be linked to Jesus Christ in His Church, which according to Catholics is, of course, the Catholic Church, you said. But the Bible says that all who believe in Him shall be saved, not all who belong to a certain organization. This is something that really confuses me.

Also, what is the state of grace you refer to when it comes to salvation? Verses like Hebrews 6:11-12, and 10:22 say that we can be assured of our salvation.

Is this the appropriate place for discussing these things?

[frozencell]

I have taken on the momentary task of debating some issues with the Protestants on the Christianity.com site. If anyone cares to read them my name on there is CritikalCrux. I hope that I am representing the Catholic church in a wholesome and Godly way.

Incidentily, if you are interested you should probably read them quickly as dUSt has so correctly displayed already, they will be most assuredly taken down in a short time. My only prayer is that maybe someone won't be as close-minded.

That's the thing that has struck me though is that here everyone is accepted with condemnation and censure.

I just there were more like Peppermint Patty.

[Peppermint Patty]

I knew that link was going to be deleted, I'm surprised it took Tony so long! LOL They have those threads on the site supposedly so that they can warn others of false teachings. But I don't buy it, they're on a mission. Some of those people claim to be experts in Islam, Mormonism, Catholicism, Evangelical Christianity AND Jehovah's Witness. Hmm, they must be old! :wacko:

[DesiringMore]

I think this is the perfect place to ask such questions Peppermint Patty:).....

i have a question concerning what Peppermint Patty quoted from cmotherofpirl....so, what about someone who was baptized Catholic but is now in a church other than the Catholic Church...

what about free will?? being baptized as a baby, your free will plays nothing upon infant baptism, it is based upon your parents....but i think denying or following Christ is free will...shouldn't you make the choice? why do you have to be baptized to be saved? why isn't Believing Jesus is your personal Lord and Savior, and having a relationship with Him not enough to make it to heaven???---Most, not all, but most Protestants believe that is all that is required to get to heaven...

[littleflower+JMJ]

wow peppermint patty. make yourself at home here. enjoy your stay.

you sound like one cool cat! :cool:

[cmotherofpirl]

I am not sure if I'm using the quote option right, so sorry if this gets messed up.

I must somehow be linked to Jesus Christ in His Church, which according to Catholics is, of course, the Catholic Church, you said.  But the Bible says that all who believe in Him shall be saved, not all who belong to a certain organization.  This is something that really confuses me.

Also, what is the state of grace you refer to when it comes to salvation?  Verses like Hebrews 6:11-12, and 10:22 say that we can be assured of our salvation. 

Is this the appropriate place for discussing these things?

You did the quote perfectly!

Jesus only founded one Church in 33 AD, Matt. 16:18 - Jesus says, "I will build my 'Church' (not churches)." There is only one Church built upon one Rock with one teaching authority, not many different denominations, built upon various pastoral opinions and suggestions.

John 10:16 - Jesus says there must only be one flock and one shepherd.

John 17:21 - Jesus states that the visible unity of the Church would be a sign that He was sent by God.

Eph. 4:3-5 - we are of one body, one Spirit, one faith and one baptism.

John 3:3,5 - unless we are "born again" of water and Spirit in baptism, we cannot enter into the kingdom of God. The Greek word for the phrase "born again" is "anothen" which literally means begotten from above. See, for example, John 3:31 where "anothen" is so used. Baptism deals with the matter of salvation, not just symbolism.

Rom. 5:2 - we rejoice in the "hope" (not the certainty) of sharing the glory of God. If salvation is assured after accepting Jesus as Savior, why would Paul hope?

Heb. 3:6 - we are Christ's house if we hold fast our confidence and pride in our "hope" (not our certainty).

Heb. 6:11 - we desire each one of you to show the same earnestness in realizing the full assurance of "hope" (not certainty) until the end.

Heb. 6:18 - we who have fled for refuge might have strong encouragement to seize the "hope" (not the certainty) that is set before us.

Heb. 6:19 - we have a "hope" that enters into the inner shrine behind the curtain, where Jesus has gone before us.

Heb. 7:19 - on the other hand, a better "hope" (not certainty) is introduced, through which we draw near to God.

Heb. 10:23 - let us hold fast the confession of our "hope" without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.

Heb. 11:1 - now faith is the assurance of things "hoped" for (not guaranteed), the conviction of things not seen (heaven).

[geetarplayer]

Actually, I believe that the Catholic church does not officially say that "one is not going to heaven without the Sacraments." The Catholic Church no longer says that salvation can be attained only through the Sacraments. It states that the Sacraments can bring you much closer to salvation than if you were to go without the Sacraments. However, the latter is not always true for every baptized Catholic.

St. Augustine says this: "Some have received the invisible sanctification without visible sacraments, and to their profit; but though it is possible to have the visible sanctification, consisting in a visible sacrament, without the invisible sanctification, it will be to no profit."

He says that it is inDouche possible for non-Catholics to attain salvation. However, he states that if you do receive a Sacrament, you don't have a "Straight to Heaven" ticket, if you will. But that's besides the point. We're focusing on salvation outside the Sacraments.

Now, what of people who live in areas that have not yet been reached by Catholic missionaries? What of people who have no connections with the Catholic church? What about those people who haven't even heard of Jesus the Christ at all? I think the Catholic Church is sympathetic to their cause, and they realize that it is not their place to judge. It is only God's place to judge.

God bless.

Is this in line with Church teachings?

-Mark

[cmotherofpirl]

Where is that quote from?

[geetarplayer]

You mean the quote of the whole post? I posted it in the Roman Catholicism thread that this topic is about. The quote from St. Augustine found here: New Advent

-Mark

[MrsFrozen]

Wow, Cmotherofpirl! That response was great! :)