What form of govt. do you think is best?

[adt6247]

[quote name='Nadezhda' post='1361618' date='Aug 18 2007, 12:50 AM']Pillory me if you want, but I still support separation of church and state. A theocracy can do all sorts of things in the name of belief. I don't support an atheistic state, like Soviet Russia. Again, lots of very nasty things can be done in the name of ideology. The freedom to disagree is a very potent privilege.[/quote]
Just having a theocratic state or religious monarchy offers a separation between church and state. Catholic clergy and religious are not allowed to hold public office without dispensation, and I believe this should not change. A government should be Catholic, and canon law should have the full effect of law.

As far as a state that gives equal treatment to all religion... the church teaches that "error has no rights".

[Didacus]

I took Catholic monarchy.



But I'm a papist at heart though. And yes, we are a dying breed.

[kafka]

I honestly think the greatest form is a theocracy like in Old T. times before Saul and David

[ardillacid]

ANARCHY!!!

[curtins]

I said non catholic democracy, as I think that better describes the USA than non catholic republic.

I wouldn't do well in a Catholic country. You can't express your faith and convert people- its like everyones the same. There is a rich beauty of America where different traditions and creeds mingle to create an amazing country (not without its faults of course). And being catholic in America means I'm free to express that faith and to share it with others who don't yet know it or have it. You couldn't do that in a purely catholic society. There would be no great forum of faiths and different backgrounds and viewpoints that makes for some very interesting and exciting living.

[genxcathedra]

I believe I learned that the last noble of a longstanding Catholic monarchy ruling Austria ran the country under Catholic moral standards and the people of other faiths, who could still freely be of those faiths, lived in peace. As the Jews wanted a human king to rule over them, the Prussians wanted a democracy like the others. I understand problems happened after the noble was exiled and they got their democracy. Catholicism is not Americanism or Westernism (including, I think, the wish for the Mass to be spoken as we speak and all kinds of individualism in what words and actions priests want to inject in the Mass, as well meaning as it may be--can we really justify clapping for the musicians?); it's universal. However, we are to live under just laws of secular states just as, oppositely, we would not obey a bishop who might allow divorce and remarriage. A democracy is not God's will although we do get to vote indirectly for our clerics and leaders as we get the ones we deserve.

Sometimes, though, I wish we never got into economics (though our universal nature requires it) because I think our materialism helps lead people to fuzzy thinking. I blame the aggiornamento (sp?) for many things like the exodus of Catholics from the Faith, but wealth and/or well-being has its place in the corruption of a household and society for many people and I hope it's not a scandal to wish for communism without the attack on the Faith sometimes. I think the guild system of the Middle Ages would be best though.



[quote name='curtins' post='1370765' date='Aug 25 2007, 10:21 PM']I said non catholic democracy, as I think that better describes the USA than non catholic republic.

I wouldn't do well in a Catholic country. You can't express your faith and convert people- its like everyones the same. There is a rich beauty of America where different traditions and creeds mingle to create an amazing country (not without its faults of course). And being catholic in America means I'm free to express that faith and to share it with others who don't yet know it or have it. You couldn't do that in a purely catholic society. There would be no great forum of faiths and different backgrounds and viewpoints that makes for some very interesting and exciting living.[/quote]

[S][N]

Socialist. Where there is no rich or poor, no laws and legistration drawn upon religious preference. Religion in Govt = War/Genocide/Racism/Bigotry etc etc. Capitalism is a fail. Communism is a fail. Democracy in its CURRENT form is a fail.

[genxcathedra]

[quote name='S][N' post='1404712' date='Oct 18 2007, 02:32 AM']
Socialist. Where there is no rich or poor, no laws and legistration drawn upon religious preference. Religion in Govt = War/Genocide/Racism/Bigotry etc etc. Capitalism is a fail. Communism is a fail. Democracy in its CURRENT form is a fail.[/quote]
I'm not for big government or big business, which seem to be married these days, if it had never been before--and I'm not saying it has. The Church should rule the world as it would straighten people more than they are as Catholicism's fundamental teachings are inerrant and cannot be changed. Medieval guilds excluded corporate take-overs and promised the best quality or shame to themselves. There would be no oversees manufacturing of things that can otherwise be made in the homeland (thus, things only China has would be made there).

[Socrates]

[quote name='S][N' post='1404712' date='Oct 18 2007, 01:32 AM']
Socialist. Where there is no rich or poor, no laws and legistration drawn upon religious preference. Religion in Govt = War/Genocide/Racism/Bigotry etc etc. Capitalism is a fail. Communism is a fail. Democracy in its CURRENT form is a fail.[/quote]
Socialism is a failure. Communism is nothing but extreme socialism (which also promised to end poverty and class division). And need we mention the 1930s/40s National Socialism of Hitler & co.?

Yeah, I'd much rather go live in a completely secular atheist socialist country like "Dear Leader" Kim Jong-il's People's Republic of North Korea, where citizens starve with its "progressive, scientific" planned socialist economy, and where we can all worship the "Dear Leader" instead of God, the penalty for Christian evangelization being the Gulag or death. (Good 'ol atheist tolerance for you.)

Atheist Gov't = Gulags, torture, violent persecution of religions, "purges" of political rivals, forced famines, suppression of human rights and freedoms, and 100 million murdered in the 20th century.

[S][N]

Or mention the fact that he was Christian. One person's version of a political perspective does not void it. If we went with your approach then everything would be doomed.

..Lol Quite the fear mongerer aren't you? If something doesn't suite your political view, you fly off the handle threatening that'd we would all be dead, tortured, abused and god knows what else you could come up with.

Atheist Govts CAN = would be the more operative word. CAN EQUAL.

Religious Govts GUARENTEE: Religious persecution, human rights violations, unfair legistation targetted against those different.

Let's not forget what the Crusaders did upon entering Jerusalem, or how the Muslims were treated in Spain (and no I'm not defending what the Muslims did either before you try twisting my words).

Religions have killed more people than any socialist/communist/secular govt could think to. And most of this has been on the end of a King sworn in by a Catholic Cardinal/Bishop.

So please...

[GodChaser]

Okay.

I see I have a lot of work. Only me and one other person know we don't need government. Can you guys help me figure out how to help you understand why you don't need government, and the government that works best is the one that governs us the least.

Or am I going to waste my time and energy proclaiming something you wont accept, or acknowledge. Why don't you want to take the reigns of your life? Why do you want a leader to make it right for you? The leader you want already lives inside you, and he is waiting on you to say, God, lead me!

He wants to be the only leader. He wants to guide you by honing your instincts to understand what is of him and what is not of him. He wants you to hear his voice in your instincts, not thoughts, but impressions and feelings about things, like an uncomfortableness of something that is not of him, or an excitement of something is of him.

Why don't you all try him as a leader, and only him.

[GodChaser]

[quote name='S][N' post='1405240' date='Oct 19 2007, 01:47 AM']
Or mention the fact that he was Christian. One person's version of a political perspective does not void it. If we went with your approach then everything would be doomed.

..Lol Quite the fear mongerer aren't you? If something doesn't suite your political view, you fly off the handle threatening that'd we would all be dead, tortured, abused and god knows what else you could come up with.

Atheist Govts CAN = would be the more operative word. CAN EQUAL.

Religious Govts GUARENTEE: Religious persecution, human rights violations, unfair legistation targetted against those different.

Let's not forget what the Crusaders did upon entering Jerusalem, or how the Muslims were treated in Spain (and no I'm not defending what the Muslims did either before you try twisting my words).

Religions have killed more people than any socialist/communist/secular govt could think to. And most of this has been on the end of a King sworn in by a Catholic Cardinal/Bishop.

So please...[/quote]
Hello S][n.

[quote name='Truthseeker777']Atheists like to say people of God are the greatest murderers of history NOT SO

The reality is... atheists are the greatest mass murderes in history,people do not understand this due to media brainwashing,but the facts speak for them selves.

Heres a list of the most blood thirsty leaders in history

Moa chinese communist leader kill tally =70 million DEAD(atheist)
Stalin communist kill tally= 30 to 60 million DEAD(atheist)
Polpot communist kill tally= 3 to 4 million dead(atheist)
Lenin kill tally= 10 million dead(atheist)
Trotsky communist butcher= millions dead(atheist)
Kim Jong millions dead(atheist)

Hitler 30 million DEAD(atheist)


Note this list and know that atheism is a blood thirsty religion of the left hand path and if you are thinking HITLER was a christian the reality is HITLER was an atheist warlock and the MEDIA lie about Hitler and his satanic beliefs,want proof ? (google Hitler thule society)

The media lie about HITLER being a Christian like they do over many things,the fact is atheism is a satanic religion,to say you do not believe in God is satanic and i a faith that can not be proven making atheism a religion.

Take Anton LeVay a atheist who wrote the satanic bible,Levay is a religious satanist thats why he did rituals and the black mass and other satanic doings like Crowleys sex magic,its a religion that taps into hatred and revenge.
You often hear Levays followers say they dont believe in satan but when you scratch their satanic spew below the surface you find they are into spells evil curses and all sorts of evil

Atheist always demad proof,crazy that they have no proof to say their is no God and that they choose a belief system that has the monsters of history as its followers ATHEISM= satans trickery

THE TRUTH HAS BEEN SPOKEN[/quote]

One of the tenanets of Communism, which lends itself to Atheism, is that all religion is evil, and it needs to be eradicated off the planet (They say it is a poison, but it has the same connotations), as a result, anybody involved should be 're-educated' or imprisioned or murdered.

Debate that.

[mortify]

A solid Catholic republic with an elected King

[Justin86]

[quote name='GodChaser' post='1406275' date='Oct 21 2007, 12:36 PM']I see I have a lot of work. Only me and one other person know we don't need government. Can you guys help me figure out how to help you understand why you don't need government, and the government that works best is the one that governs us the least.[/quote]
Well, I think the governments role should be limited to prosecuting criminals and waging military campaigns. I can do everything else myself.

Now, if we had no government who would prosecute criminals and defend us from foreign invasions?

[quote name='mortify' post='1406292' date='Oct 21 2007, 01:29 PM']A solid Catholic republic with an elected King [/quote]
Isn't this contradictory?

[mortify]

It existed in the past, take Poland for example. It's basically a Senate composed of nobleman with an elected King and weak central authority.