If the Tridentine Mass was brought back...

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Feb 20 2006, 01:01 PM']It would be fruitful if Traditionalists would help the Church towards this goal, which is going to happen anyway, rather than working against the Church.
[right][snapback]892752[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Amen.

[Nathan]

I would accept a return to the Tridentine Mass without complaint. I trust that the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit and is thus infallible. Whatever happens is what God wants to happen.

[cmotherofpirl]

Amen.

We will not be debating Mass vs Mass so remember that in your replies.

[jiyoung]

I think, if anything, the TLM would be celebrated more OFTEN, but I don't think it would come back as the norm. Didn't the Tridentine replace another rite? And the other rite didn't reappear as the norm afterwards... (I'm not sure about whether this older rite existed, it's probably all in my head, but I remembered reading something about this)

[brendan1104]

[quote name='jiyoung' date='Feb 20 2006, 06:13 PM']I think, if anything, the TLM would be celebrated more OFTEN, but I don't think it would come back as the norm. Didn't the Tridentine replace another rite? And the other rite didn't reappear as the norm afterwards... (I'm not sure about whether this older rite existed, it's probably all in my head, but I remembered reading something about this)
[right][snapback]893050[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Well traditionalists, don't get your hopes up:

[quote] If the Holy See were to "authorize the old rite [Traditional Latin Mass] once again worldwide and without limitation," as you wish it and have heard it by report, it is not so easy to say. Besides, too many Catholics share a negative attitude -- indoctrinated over some years -- towards the traditional liturgy, which they call proudly "pre-conciliar," and many bishops would oppose in great numbers a general authorization of the old rite. The situation is different if only a limited authorization is envisaged....
But I think that in future the Roman Church must have only a single rite. The existence of two rites is hardly "managable" for the bishops and the priests. The Roman Rite of future must be a single rite, celebrated in Latin or the vulgar tongues, but based entirely in the tradition of the old rite. That single rite could integrate some novel elements that have proven themselves [from the Novus Ordo]: some Prefaces, some longer readings -- more choices than before, but not too many: one Prayer of the Faithful, that is to say, a litany of prayers of intercession after the Oremus before the Offertory, where its primitive place is....
One must, however, be careful against stirring up too great a hope, too much of a hope, in the faithful tied to Tradition....[/quote]
- Josef Cardinal Ratzinger

[OLAM Dad]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Feb 20 2006, 12:01 PM']It won't happen. Parts of the NO mass will be cleaned up, more Latin will be reintroduced, and what was meant to be carried out at the council will be carried out, but the N.O. mass will never go away and the Tridentine will never be the standard again.

A Novus Ordo done as it was meant to be done is as beautiful as a Tridentine mass. I've been to several. It would be fruitful if Traditionalists would help the Church towards this goal, which is going to happen anyway, rather than working against the Church.
[right][snapback]892752[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Whats wrong with everyone!?! We are [i][b]not[/b][/i] against the Church!! Why do y'all think that just because we are traditional, we are against the church??!!

We are not the same as SSPX. You clearly [i]misread[/i] our posts. We prefer the Latin mass......that doesn't mean its the [i]only[/i] mass we go to and is the [i]only[/i] mass we believe is valid. Okay?

[Ora et Labora]

[quote name='brendan1104' date='Feb 20 2006, 11:12 AM']Notice I said "if" and traditionalists don't work against the Church, we work for it.
[right][snapback]892768[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Brendan is right...absolutely.

[Catholictothecore]

The mass is the mass. So long as I can validly recieve the Eucharist, I don't really care.

[Ora et Labora]

[quote name='OLAM Dad' date='Feb 20 2006, 04:39 PM']Whats wrong with everyone!?! We are [i][b]not[/b][/i] against the Church!! Why do y'all think that just because we are traditional, we are against the church??!!

We are not the same as SSPX.    You clearly [i]misread[/i] our posts. We prefer the Latin mass......that doesn't mean its the [i]only[/i] mass we go to and is the [i]only[/i] mass we believe is valid. Okay?
[right][snapback]893076[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

That was me.

[brendan1104]

[quote name='Ora et Labora' date='Feb 20 2006, 06:41 PM']Brendan is right...absolutely. 
[right][snapback]893078[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Aww Kristina, I'm touched. Nobody on PM has ever said that before...

Of course you're not as "ultra" traditional as me, but it's good to know somebody agrees with something I said...

[Ora et Labora]

[quote name='brendan1104' date='Feb 20 2006, 04:46 PM']Aww Kristina, I'm touched. Nobody on PM has ever said that before... 

Of course you're not as "ultra" traditional as me, but it's good to know somebody agrees with something I said...
[right][snapback]893085[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

You know as well as I do that we have had our.....conflicts. At least we have had conflicts... But I do agree with you on some points.

And I'm pretty traditional...believe me!

[brendan1104]

[quote name='Ora et Labora' date='Feb 20 2006, 06:50 PM']  You know as well as I do that we have had our.....conflicts. At least we have had conflicts... But I do agree with you on some points.

And I'm pretty traditional...believe me! 
[right][snapback]893091[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Yes, but you don't go to the SSPX. By the way, I find your thread "To Brendan only" a few days ago, and responded a few times... but you didn't. Check it out in the Debate table.

[Ora et Labora]

Oh, I will. Are you really SSPX though? I thought you sort of got over that....

[HisChild]

I love the Latin in our Mass at church. We are still NO, but we have the incense, the Latin, the male choir, etc. And what's interesting is that those who attend that Mass, regardless of if they usually attend that Mass or attend any of the Masses, depending on the convenience of the time for them. . .everyone is silent, reverent, etc. It fills me with awe. I like the sacred-ness of the Latin, regardless of Diocesan Tridentine Indult or NO in origin. (and since I have a missal which shows me what is being said, in either Mass, I can follow along!)


To *ME*? It's better than a rock concert I sometimes stumble into when walking into visiting parishes (like if I am on vacation and go to Mass, like I will next week).

[brendan1104]

[quote name='Ora et Labora' date='Feb 20 2006, 06:53 PM']Oh, I will. Are you really SSPX though? I thought you sort of got over that....
[right][snapback]893096[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

I still go to their chapel... I love serving High Mass there- they do it much more properly and fully than the indult. I like the doctrinal instruction and the fellowship. They have everything the indult doesn't and there are no conditions, no restraints, etc.

Edited February 20, 2006 by brendan1104

[Dave]

[quote name='OLAM Dad' date='Feb 20 2006, 05:39 PM']Whats wrong with everyone!?! We are [i][b]not[/b][/i] against the Church!! Why do y'all think that just because we are traditional, we are against the church??!!

We are not the same as SSPX.    You clearly [i]misread[/i] our posts. We prefer the Latin mass......that doesn't mean its the [i]only[/i] mass we go to and is the [i]only[/i] mass we believe is valid. Okay?
[right][snapback]893076[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

I think Adam uses the term "traditionalist" in the same way that I prefer to use it, namely, to describe someone who hates the Novus Ordo Mass, loves the SSPX (even if they don't attend their chapels), refuses to submit to Vatican II, thinks popes like John Paul II were among the worst popes in history, etc. For Catholics like you and me who are loyal to the Church and merely happen to prefer the Tridentine Mass, I consider the proper term to be "traditional Catholics."

[brendan1104]

[quote name='Dave' date='Feb 20 2006, 06:57 PM']I think Adam uses the term "traditionalist" in the same way that I prefer to use it, namely, to describe someone who hates the Novus Ordo Mass, loves the SSPX (even if they don't attend their chapels), refuses to submit to Vatican II, thinks popes like John Paul II were among the worst popes in history, etc.  For Catholics like you and me who are loyal to the Church and merely happen to prefer the Tridentine Mass, I consider the proper term to be "traditional Catholics."
[right][snapback]893101[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

"I'm a Catholic, not a traditionalist."
- Hutton Gibson.
- Brendan Young.

[Cam42]

[quote name='Raphael' date='Feb 20 2006, 03:52 PM']What are what we always have been.
We believe what we have always believed.
We worship Whom we have always worshipped, in spirit and truth.
We have always been right.
We have never been wrong.

Accept that the faith is unfolding and the Church living.  Stop making God and His Church into a dead system of rules and acknowledge the greatness of the Trinity of Divine Persons.
[right][snapback]892922[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Nice Micah, very Nice.

[HisChild]

I am so honored to enter the PCPA on the feast of Divine Mercy sunday, the one year anniversary of JP II the Great's death. (even though it's not the actual date as last year). I haven't taken off his crucifix in the 12 yrs I've worn it. (well, to clean it!) He's just. . . .amazing. Inspiring. And the springboard of many vocations.

God bless you.

[Cam42]

[quote name='brendan1104' date='Feb 20 2006, 02:00 PM']Sorry, but indults make up only a small part of traditional Masses. We continue the Mass and Church of all time. I'll be back later later I have to go to confession.
[right][snapback]892808[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

But the Tridentine Mass is NOT "the Mass of all time." It is simply the accepted form the Mass for 399 years.

And how do you reconcile this:
[quote name='Quo Primum Tempore']Nevertheless, if this Missal which We have seen fit to publish be more agreeable to these last, We hereby permit them to celebrate Mass according to its rite, subject to the consent of their bishop or prelate, and of their whole Chapter, all else to the contrary notwithstanding.[/quote]

This is in regard to local churches which have a Missal that is more than 200 years old. So, according to your logic, it is "the Mass of all time" except for those churches? Nope. Your logic is faulty. If that is the case, then it is not the Mass of all time.

Incidentally, [i]Quo Primum[/i] was only a diciplinary document. There is nothing infallible about it. Should we pay it the due it deserves, you bet. But does that mean that it is never ammendable or that it is never to be superceded? Nope. If that were the case, then what was the point of [i]Cum Sanctissimum[/i] and [i]Si Quid Est[/i]?

However, to answer your question, if it were reverted, which it never will be, I would go with fervor. Just like I go now, just like I go to the Novus Ordo, now.