brendan1104 Posted February 21, 2006 Author Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='Cam42' date='Feb 20 2006, 08:28 PM']Yes, he is a very close friend of mine. [right][snapback]893230[/snapback][/right] [/quote] What a [u]great[/u] preacher and a holy priest. The best pastor I've ever seen. If I was in Minnesota, believe it or not, I would be going there instead of the SSPX.
Cam42 Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='brendan1104' date='Feb 20 2006, 08:30 PM']What a [u]great[/u] preacher and a holy priest. The best pastor I've ever seen. If I was in Minnesota, believe it or not, I would be going there instead of the SSPX. [right][snapback]893234[/snapback][/right] [/quote] He'd expect you to go to confession and denounce the SSPX first.
Fidei Defensor Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='brendan1104' date='Feb 20 2006, 07:27 PM']They would never celebrate the Novus Ordo, even the "way its supposed to be". Hey Cam, do you Father Altier? [right][snapback]893226[/snapback][/right] [/quote] They would if they would put down their pride and realize how beautiful it could really be. They purposely make it sound terrible because they use the visual of terribly celebrated masses with tons of abuses.
Resurrexi Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 If the NO was outlawed and the TLM brought back I would be so extremely happy that I dont know what I'd do!
brendan1104 Posted February 21, 2006 Author Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='Cam42' date='Feb 20 2006, 08:31 PM']He'd expect you to go to confession and denounce the SSPX first. [right][snapback]893236[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Hmm... I donno. [quote name='fidei defensor' date='Feb 20 2006, 08:32 PM']They would if they would put down their pride and realize how beautiful it could really be. They purposely make it sound terrible because they use the visual of terribly celebrated masses with tons of abuses. [right][snapback]893237[/snapback][/right] [/quote] They think the Novus Ordo consecration formulae even in Latin are doubtfully valid.
Fidei Defensor Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='Cam42' date='Feb 20 2006, 07:26 PM']That place exists, sans SSPX. It is my home parish in Minnesota. My mentor was pastor there for 31 years. Here is a picture. [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v672/camilam42/altar1024.jpg[/img] Novus Ordo Missae only. It is not, I repeat not an Indult parish. [right][snapback]893223[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Beautiful. I can just imagine how beautifully celebrated the Mass would be there.
Cam42 Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='Feb 20 2006, 08:32 PM']They would if they would put down their pride and realize how beautiful it could really be. They purposely make it sound terrible because they use the visual of terribly celebrated masses with tons of abuses. [right][snapback]893237[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Ya know, honestly, I have seen tons of abuses with the Tridentine Mass. I have also seen some pretty ugly Tridentine Masses too.
brendan1104 Posted February 21, 2006 Author Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='StThomasMore' date='Feb 20 2006, 08:33 PM']If the NO was outlawed and the TLM brought back I would be so extremely happy that I dont know what I'd do! [right][snapback]893239[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Maybe shave for the first time?!
Fidei Defensor Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='brendan1104' date='Feb 20 2006, 07:34 PM']Hmm... I donno. They think the Novus Ordo consecration formulae even in Latin are doubtfully valid. [right][snapback]893240[/snapback][/right] [/quote] The Holy Fathers have said otherwise. Hmm, now who would I trust on this issue? I'll give you one hint: not SSPX.
Cam42 Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='brendan1104' date='Feb 20 2006, 08:34 PM']Hmm... I donno. They think the Novus Ordo consecration formulae even in Latin are doubtfully valid. [right][snapback]893240[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I do know. I have been at table with him and we have had this discussion before....several times. No need to ponder. You are getting it straight. And the SSPX thinks wrong.....they have no authority to make that fallacious assumption.
Cam42 Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v672/camilam42/altarflr-1024.jpg[/img] Just one more, for the sake of proving a point. That is my mentor.
Fidei Defensor Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='Cam42' date='Feb 20 2006, 07:38 PM'][img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v672/camilam42/altarflr-1024.jpg[/img] Just one more, for the sake of proving a point. [right][snapback]893252[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I wish we had a church like that here.
Resurrexi Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 [quote]Ya know, honestly, I have seen tons of abuses with the Tridentine Mass. I have also seen some pretty ugly Tridentine Masses too. [/quote] I pray, oh Lord and Master of Orthodoxy, that you share with we, thy subjects, these abuses which thou hast witnessed.
brendan1104 Posted February 21, 2006 Author Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='Cam42' date='Feb 20 2006, 08:36 PM']I do know. I have been at table with him and we have had this discussion before....several times. No need to ponder. You are getting it straight. And the SSPX thinks wrong.....they have no authority to make that fallacious assumption. [right][snapback]893247[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Do you mean that by favoring the properly-offered Novus Ordo i'm starting to accquire a correct understanding of the liturgy?
Cam42 Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='StThomasMore' date='Feb 20 2006, 08:39 PM']I pray, oh Lord and Master of Orthodoxy, that you share with we, thy subjects, these abuses which thou hast witnessed. [right][snapback]893254[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Well, let's see...... 1. skipping the Asperges. 2. skipping the readings in Latin. 3. tripping over the words of the Roman Canon. (Not allowed) 4. altar boys handling the sacred vessels. 5. the inaudible prayers prayed over a microphone 6. priest not wearing a biretta 7. not ringing of the bells at the offertory 8. priest not repeating the double prayers 9. priest not praying the doubles, only the propers of the day 10. priest not doing abultions after Holy Communion, but rather after Mass, in the sacristy. There are 10. There are many more, but that should suffice. They are various in severity, but they are all abuses.
Cam42 Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='brendan1104' date='Feb 20 2006, 08:40 PM']Do you mean that by favoring the properly-offered Novus Ordo i'm starting to accquire a correct understanding of the liturgy? [right][snapback]893256[/snapback][/right] [/quote] No, I mean that you don't need to wonder if Fr. Altier would think that you need to reconcile. I know what he thinks, I have asked him, point blank, if SSPX attendees need to go to confession and renounce the schism of the SSPX before receiving Holy Communion in the Church. He said...... Yes, they need to regularize first.
brendan1104 Posted February 21, 2006 Author Posted February 21, 2006 1. skipping the Asperges. - only done at the principal Mass on Sundays, if you were at an Indult at a bi-ritual church, as you well know, it was not the principal Mass. 4. altar boys handling the sacred vessels.- i handle them with gloves or a linen cloth or veil. 7. not ringing of the bells at the offertory- this varies at different places, can you point out an exact rubric? 8. priest not repeating the double prayers 9. priest not praying the doubles, only the propers of the day- i believe these were abolished in the 62 missal.
Cam42 Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='brendan1104' date='Feb 20 2006, 08:53 PM']1. skipping the Asperges. - only done at the principal Mass on Sundays, if you were at an Indult at a bi-ritual church, as you well know, it was not the principal Mass. 4. altar boys handling the sacred vessels.- i handle them with gloves or a linen cloth or veil. 7. not ringing of the bells at the offertory- this varies at different places, can you point out an exact rubric? 8. priest not repeating the double prayers 9. priest not praying the doubles, only the propers of the day- i believe these were abolished in the 62 missal. [right][snapback]893266[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Ok, didn't I just say that I knew what I was talking about? I know what I am talking about. Don't try and tell me what is right and wrong when it comes to the Tridentine Mass. 1. It was the prinicple Sunday Mass. 4. If there are a deacon and subdeacon, the altar boys should not touch the sacred vessels 7. ringing the bells part of the rubics 8. double prayers were not abbrogated with the 1962 Missal 9. double feasts were not abbrogated either
Cam42 Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 Brendan, By number 7, you are not saying that there is "innovation" in the Tridentine Mass are you? Oh the shock and horror of it all. But no, the bells are part of the rubrics.
brendan1104 Posted February 21, 2006 Author Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='Cam42' date='Feb 20 2006, 09:27 PM']Brendan, By number 7, you are not saying that there is "innovation" in the Tridentine Mass are you? Oh the shock and horror of it all. But no, the bells are part of the rubrics. [right][snapback]893292[/snapback][/right] [/quote] There were many illicit innovations.
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