Music...

[Ora et Labora]

Thank you djc08.

[djc08]

No problem Ora et Labora!

[Catholic Knight]

The music should not in any way distract from the action at the altar, ambo, or chair.

[Ora et Labora]

so, i guess its not considered a distraction any more when people get in front of the church, start singing for all to see...with a piano and guitar.

uhuh.

[Maria]

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='Feb 24 2006, 04:51 PM']40. Music and singing, which express the soul of people, have pride of place in the liturgy. And so singing must be promoted, in the first place singing the liturgical text, so that the voices of the faithful may be heard in the liturgical actions themselves.[84] "[b]In some parts of the world, especially mission lands,[/b] there are people who have their own musical traditions, and these play a great part in their religious and social life. Due importance is to be attached to their music and a suitable place given to it, not only in forming their attitude toward religion, but also in adapting worship to their native genius."[85]
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Is this a plus-side to Quebec being mission territory?

Seriously, I'd like to see more gregorian chant, but I also like the other stuff.

[Ora et Labora]

[quote name='Catholic Knight' date='Feb 25 2006, 04:43 PM']The music should not in any way distract from the action at the altar, ambo, or chair.
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I just read that. Is there a way you can specify that answer with facts? Thanks.

[Mercy me]

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='Feb 24 2006, 04:51 PM']40. Music and singing, which express the soul of people, have pride of place in the liturgy. And so singing must be promoted, in the first place singing the liturgical text, so that the voices of the faithful may be heard in the liturgical actions themselves.[84] "[b]In some parts of the world, especially mission lands,[/b] there are [b]people who have their own musical traditions, and these play a great part in their religious and social life.[/b] Due importance is to be attached to their music and a suitable place given to it, not only in forming their attitude toward religion, but also in adapting worship to their native genius."[85]
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The United States is the birthplace of rock and roll, hip hop and grunge. :

[Mercy me]

Yesterday, I when to a very traditional parish in town, The music was gorgeous but completely unsingable by anyone other than a professional. The point is that the music needs to encourages greater participation in the celebration of the mass. All posts on this thread seem to agree on that point. Everyone needs to be able to sing it. (Well maybe not me, since i have a voice that only God can appreciate.) Music is a reflection of those celebrating the miracle that is our mass. Gregorian chant and organ music while beautiful are not reflective our culture today and are not the only reverant musical forms. StBernardLT is quite right.

[missionseeker]

[quote name='stbernardLT' date='Feb 24 2006, 04:21 PM']The call of stewardship is that we offer our gifts to the church and god.  We might bring money but someone in Africa might bring a chicken, worth the same in God's eyes.  An older lady might play the organ and sing a gregorian chant, some teen might play the guitar and sing some praise and worship, worth the same in God's eyes.  If the music is inviting worship played with reverence and celebrates community  why not.  I played drums at a confirmation yesterday with a very conservaitve bishop and he had no problem singing along with "Trading My Sorrows" because he knew the sincerity of the teens making their confirmation and understood that they didn't look at the Celebration of the Eucharist as a "performance."  The food was also very good and very catholic(no casseroles.).
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I don't think it is fair to teenagers to automatically say "oh, they won't like this we must do something *special* and *more society-friendly-inspired-repitoire-of-songs-we-can-hear-on-the-radio" Not only does it make us some strange and foriegn "culture", it kind of takes away some of our dignity. This may sound absolutely not true, far-fetched to you, but, think about it. The media portrays teenagers as wild, rebellious,uncaring,selfish,brats that are not exactly people yet. This is a part (notice only a part) of the reason why people think that teens [i]can't or won't[/i] go to Mass without "a reason" -for lack of a better phrase. It kind of tkes away a chance to prove them wrong.

Also, when a teenager in group of Life Teen fans says they like chant, they litterally get laughed into silence. I have seen this happen. I can't tell some of my friends that I am going to start a chant choir at my college this Fall. I know kids who won't go to Life Teen. why can't we have "Life Chant" that would be cool. Kids would go to that.

Up to now I have not been talking specifically to you. I was just stating my thoughts in general. But this next part is addresed to you.


I really don't think you should limit chant to old ladies. Lots of chant scholars and chant enthusiasts are young. That's a part of the reason chant is coming back. Also, have you ever looked at a translation of a chant? The words are absolutely gorgeous and completely relevant still today. I like Life Teen music when I hear it on the radio, but at mass I want more than happy-feely stuff. I mean, Christianity isn't exactly a happy- feely religion. Our God died the most horrific death because we deblibrately chose to ignore the gift He gave us. (paradise) And He did it so we could be with Him. We should fall on the floor in shame and gratitude and plain adoration at Mass.

Adoro te devote, latens Deitas,
Quæ sub his figuris vere latitas;
Tibi se cor meum totum subjicit,
Quia te contemplans totum deficit.

Visus, tactus, gustus in te fallitur,
Sed auditu solo tuto creditur.
Credo quidquid dixit Dei Filius;
Nil hoc verbo veritátis verius.

In cruce latebat sola Deitas,
At hic latet simul et Humanitas,
Ambo tamen credens atque confitens,
Peto quod petivit latro pœnitens.

Plagas, sicut Thomas, non intueor:
Deum tamen meum te confiteor.
Fac me tibi semper magis credere,
In te spem habere, te diligere.

O memoriale mortis Domini!
Panis vivus, vitam præstans homini!
Præsta meæ menti de te vívere,
Et te illi semper dulce sapere.

Pie Pelicane, Jesu Domine,
Me immundum munda tuo sanguine:
Cujus una stilla salvum facere
Totum mundum quit ab omni scelere.

Jesu, quem velatum nunc aspicio,
Oro, fiat illud quod tam sitio:
Ut te revelata cernens facie,
Visu sim beátus tuæ gloriæ. Amen


Godhead here in hiding, whom I do adore,
Masked by these bare shadows, shape and nothing more,
See, Lord, at Thy service low lies here a heart
Lost, all lost in wonder at the God thou art.

Seeing, touching, tasting are in thee deceived:
How says trusty hearing? that shall be believed;
What God's Son has told me, take for truth I do;
Truth Himself speaks truly or there's nothing true.

On the cross Thy godhead made no sign to men,
Here Thy very manhood steals from human ken:
Both are my confession, both are my belief,
And I pray the prayer of the dying thief.

I am not like Thomas, wounds I cannot see,
But can plainly call thee Lord and God as he;
Let me to a deeper faith daily nearer move,
Daily make me harder hope and dearer love.

O thou our reminder of Christ crucified,
Living Bread, the life of us for whom he died,
Lend this life to me then: feed and feast my mind,
There be thou the sweetness man was meant to find.

Bring the tender tale true of the Pelican;
Bathe me, Jesu Lord, in what Thy bosom ran
Blood whereof a single drop has power to win
All the world forgiveness of its world of sin.

Jesu, whom I look at shrouded here below,
I beseech thee send me what I thirst for so,
Some day to gaze on thee face to face in light
And be blest for ever with Thy glory's sight. Amen.





[quote name='Noel's angel' date='Feb 25 2006, 07:32 AM']its not that hard to get a bunch of teenagers together and teach them some nice Gregorian chant
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[missionseeker]

Jesu, dúlcis memória,
Dans véra córdis gáudia:
Sed super mel et ómnia
Ejus dúlcis præséntia.
2 Nil cánitur suávius,
Nil audítur jucúndius,
Nil cogitátur dúlcius,
Quam Jésus Déi Fílius.
3 Jésu, spes pæniténtibus,
Quan píus es peténtibus !
Quan bónus te quæréntibus !
Sed quid inveniéntibus ?
4 Nec língua válet dícere,
Nec líttera exprímere:
Expértus pótest crédere,
Quid sit Jésum dilígere.
5 Sis, Jésu, nóstrum gáudium,
Qui est futúrus praémium
Sit nóstra in te glória,
Per cúncta semper saécula.
Amen.


JESU, the very thought of Thee
With sweetness fills the breast;
But sweeter far Thy Face to see,
And in Thy Presence rest.

No voice can sing, no heart can frame, 5
Nor can the memory find
A sweeter sound than Jesu’s Name,
The Saviour of mankind.

O Hope of every contrite heart,
O Joy of all the meek, 10
To those who ask how kind Thou art,
How good to those who seek!

But what to those who find? Ah! this
Nor tongue nor pen can show;
The love of Jesus, what it is 15
None but His loved ones know.

Jesu, our only Joy be Thou,
As Thou our Prize wilt be:
In Thee be all our glory now,
And through eternity.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='stbernardLT' date='Feb 24 2006, 04:51 PM']Otherwise we would be without music at a lot more masses and the church says we need music even if it is just instrumental.  Priority yes, primary no.
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God, in His Wisdom, gave every human an instrument.

It involves this little thing called a voice box...


A capella baby.



And HAugen, Haas, Schutte and their ilk are oftentimes difficult to sing. When we sing a song to a Mozart tune, not difficult. Funny that the great composers came up with tunes for Church that most people can follow.

[Mrvoll]

Our church bought a drumset for the youth choir. One day I decided to go to confession, and the priest was playing a Chant CD. (Our Church has a high altar so the effect was great) but the youth choir played at the Mass. Music like Matt Redman, Brian Doerksen , Tim Hughes and all those other "worship" composers supported from CCLI should be banned from all Catholic Churches, their music makes Marty Haugen's music sound great. The ideas of their songs are weird for example refiners fire. To whom are we singing to? are we singing to Pugatory or where? If we get this junk out of the Church we will have no need for drums.

[Noel's angel]

It reminds me of the song 'Sing to the Mountains' why???? I never understood why I should sing to a mountain....

Well, I'm the main organiser of our first youth Mass in our parish and over my dead body will I allow drums or electric guitars near the Church. Nice, traditional hymns that are in an easy key to sing to sound much better to me than modern, irreverend (not that all modern hymns are) bish bash, hokey kokey, clappy hands singalongs

[stbernardLT]

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='Feb 28 2006, 07:05 AM']It reminds me of the song 'Sing to the Mountains'  why????  I never understood why I should sing to a mountain....

Well, I'm the main organiser of our first youth Mass in our parish and over my dead body will I allow drums or electric guitars near the Church.  Nice, traditional hymns that are in an easy key to sing to sound much better to me than modern, irreverend (not that all modern hymns are) bish bash, hokey kokey, clappy hands singalongs
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Oh no not a youth mass, we could never do that, that would be personal. And what exaclty will make this a "youth mass".

Have a nice lent, and MARDI GRAS.

[Noel's angel]

Well the Mass of course will be for all the parish, regardless of age, however we are trying to integrate youth into the parish more, so at this Mass young people will be reading, doing cantor etc. Totally by the book

[missionseeker]

[quote name='Mercy me' date='Feb 27 2006, 07:37 PM']Yesterday, I when to a very traditional parish in town,  The music was gorgeous but completely unsingable by anyone other than a professional.  The point is that the music needs to encourages greater participation in the celebration of the mass.  All posts on this thread seem to agree on that point.  Everyone needs to be able to sing it.  (Well maybe not me, since i have a voice that only God can appreciate.)  Music is a reflection of those celebrating the miracle that is our mass.  Gregorian chant and organ music while beautiful are not reflective our culture today and are not the only reverant musical forms.  StBernardLT is quite right.
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I have a hard time following a lot of Life Teen music. (I'm 17 ) What do you mean "not reflective of our culture today"
That music has been a part of our culture for almost 2000 years. Why should we all of a sudden just decide that it is no longer reflective of our culture?