ironmonk Posted March 1, 2006 Author Posted March 1, 2006 [quote name='Era Might' date='Mar 1 2006, 08:56 AM']Some are biological. [right][snapback]900621[/snapback][/right] [/quote] That is one theory.
Era Might Posted March 1, 2006 Posted March 1, 2006 [b]Vatican conference to focus on clinical depression[/b] Vatican, Nov. 12, 2003 (CWNews.com) - Announcing plans for a Vatican conference on clinical depression, the president of the Pontifical Council for Health Care said it is "one of the main killer diseases of our time." Cardinal Javier Lozano Barragan briefed reporters on plans for a 3-day international conference on depression, taking place in Rome from November 13 to 15 under the aegis of the Pontifical Council for Health Care. This conference is one in series organized by the Council to deal with "emerging diseases" that threaten the world's societies; previous meetings discussed AIDS and drug abuse. About 620 people are expected to attend, including psychologists, psychiatrists, academics, and Church officials.
Era Might Posted March 1, 2006 Posted March 1, 2006 The Church does not look at depression as a spiritual problem, and conclude, "anyone and everyone must be spiritually deficient". She sees the human person in all their complexity, and does not rule out spiritual, psychological, or biological factors in depression. This is not an either/or matter.
ironmonk Posted March 1, 2006 Author Posted March 1, 2006 From [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=2314"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=2314[/url] [quote]"I go to Mass, but I don't know anyone at my Parish." "I give money to the Church and to the poor, that's all I have time for." "I don't know many Catholics." "I'm not happy, I go to Mass, I pray, and I'm faithful, I don't feel like I fit in." How many times have we felt any of the above statements or have heard others say them? Some people think that going to Mass is enough. Then they wonder why they do not know many Catholics, feel like their unhappy, don't fit in, etc... . If Catholics want to live their faith and be happy, then we need to be active in our Parish. Join organizations such as the Knights of Columbus, Prayer groups, youth groups, Education groups, help at the food pantry, etc... An old friend of mine when I was 20, Lisa Suffold, said that she only went to Mass to meet men... she liked me, and I her a lot, but I never dated her because she said that. How many others think they'll meet someone at Mass either for friendship or marriage? Mass is not social time, it's Worship time... when we go for the wrong reasons, it's almost as bad as not going. Psychology of the last century has been guiding all of us wrong. People now worry about self and focus on self. "They" always speak of people needing 'self esteem'. "They" always say that 'we must love ourselves before we love others'. "They" are wrong. Psychology of today has continued to take God out of the recipe for a healthy psyche. Pschology of today says that "it's good to believe in 'something'". Pschology of today drives us to focus on ourselves. Psychology of today cannot agree why so many people now have so many problems. Psychology of today says fix it with a pill. The human psyche wants truth, and starves for truth. Partial truths cannot fill the psyche. Take a look at the great saints, the poor, and people before "psychology" came to be. Depression was not an issue. Knowing self was not an issue. The happiest people are those who focus on others. Those who help people with their time. "But I don't have time, I've got family, I've got a job, I need some me time to." 168 hours in a week. 40-50 hrs for typical work. 56 hrs for sleep at 8 hrs a night. 1 Hour for Mass. That leaves us with roughly 61 hours per week. Are we using that time the way Christ wants us to? [b]St. Matt 16:24 [/b] Then Jesus said to his disciples, "[color=red]Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me. [/color] [b]25 [/b][color=red]For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. [/color] [b]26 [/b][color=red]What profit would there be for one to gain the whole world and forfeit his life? Or what can one give in exchange for his life? [/color] [b]27 [/b][color=red]For the Son of Man will come with his angels in his Father's glory, and then he will repay everyone according to his conduct.[/color] [b]St. Matt 25:34 [/b] [color=red]Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. [/color] [b]35[/b][color=red] For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, [/color] [b]36 [/b][color=red]naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.'[/color] [b]37 [/b][color=red]Then the righteous will answer him and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? [/color] [b]38 [/b][color=red]When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? [/color] [b]39 [/b][color=red]When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?' [/color] [b]40 [/b][color=red]And the king will say to them in reply, 'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.'[/color] [b]41 [/b][color=red]Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.[/color] [b]42 [/b][color=red]For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, [/color] [b]43 [/b][color=red]a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.' [/color] [b]44 [/b][color=red]Then they will answer and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?' [/color] [b]45 [/b][color=red]He will answer them, 'Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.' [/color] [b]46 [/b][color=red]And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." [/color] "But what about my family time." Why not make it a family project? Teach your children to live for Christ by helping others and you will not be disappointed when they're teens or adults. "What about the me time." Focus on helping others and you will not need nearly as much 'me' time. "I don't know where to begin." Ask someone. Join the Knights of Columbus, they normally have many community projects going. "I'm not in a Catholic area." Help out at a hospital or retirement home. Be a beacon of the Catholic faith, and soon by the seeds you plant, your area could be Catholic. "I don't know anyone, and I don't feel like I fit in." That's because Mass is Worship time, not social time. When you get active in the Parish, you will meet others and when you help others you will fit in. When we put other people first, we will always fit in. "I feel like my life is stagnant and going nowhere." Maybe God is waiting for you to do something for others. Everything happens according to the will of God, He knows what we need. Seek first the Kingdom of God, and all things will be given unto you. He cares for the birds of the sky, feeding them and sheltering them... How much more does God love you, with your eternal soul and that you are created in his image. God Bless, Your Servant in Christ, ironmonk[/quote] If we are right with God, we have no reason to be depressed. If we are, then we need to change our point of view. All the psychological help someone needs can be found in the Scriptures and Catholic teaching. If someone can study and follow them, then they should be happy. If not, then they are looking at things wrong and should change their point of view. I do no believe the theory of biological depression. Emotions can produce chemicals in our brains. When we artifically introduce chemicals into someone's brian it can influence emotion, but that person can still have control of their emotions... therefore "biological depression" is false.
Era Might Posted March 1, 2006 Posted March 1, 2006 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Mar 1 2006, 10:21 AM']If we are right with God, we have no reason to be depressed. If we are, then we need to change our point of view. [right][snapback]900683[/snapback][/right] [/quote] This is a health-and-wealth Gospel. The Church does not teach this. Communion with God doesn't mean disease and sorrow subside. It means that we can be holy despite them.
Era Might Posted March 1, 2006 Posted March 1, 2006 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Mar 1 2006, 10:21 AM']I do no believe the theory of biological depression. Emotions can produce chemicals in our brains. [right][snapback]900683[/snapback][/right] [/quote] That's fine. But the Church does accept this point of biology, and encourages her children to seek medical help when necessary.
Thumper Posted March 1, 2006 Posted March 1, 2006 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Mar 1 2006, 09:08 AM'][b]Bible Has an Answer for Depression, Says Cardinal [/b] VATICAN CITY, NOV. 13, 2003 (Zenit.org).- An international conference noted that the Bible addresses the problem of mental depression -- even offers an answer to it. In his opening address today at the Vatican conference on depression, Cardinal José Saraiva Martins, prefect of the Congregation for Sainthood Causes, noted the forms of depression mentioned in the Bible. "Sadness, lack of interest, diminution of the capacity to work, inability to sleep, loss of weight, guilt feelings, suicidal thoughts, desire to weep" are symptoms which appear in the sacred text, he said at the 18th International Conference of the Pontifical Council for Health Care Workers. [/quote] [quote name='ironmonk']Take a look at the great saints, the poor, and people before "psychology" came to be. Depression was not an issue. Knowing self was not an issue. [/quote] Are you going to pick a position--or is this just a joyful stream of consciousness?
Nicole8223 Posted March 1, 2006 Posted March 1, 2006 Depression stems from something, an event, a memory, an emotion...it doesn't appear from no where. Depression occurs because of how we deal with whatever that root cause is. Turning to God may not remove the problem, but we can find joy in suffering...which is what we are all called to do. No one is called to be sad because of life. God made us good, and in order to get ourselves out of depression, we need to learn how to see that. That's not saying some people suffer from a disease of depression, but they, too, have the resources at their hands to free themselves of this burden through prayer, sacrifice, and humility. I think our society today needs immediate response to everything, and doctors have a name for everything. In my opinion (and its a humble opinion cause I'm not scientist), many who are diagnosed with clinical depression do not actually have the disease. I feel the same way about ADHD in children. Teachers and parents are so quick to put a name to something and put a child on medicine, when maybe the child just needs some more love or attention. Again, I know ADHD exists, but I think that we get so caught up in it, that now every kid who doesn't sit still has it! I see clinical depression in the same way. Anyone who is feeling down for a few days, goes to their doctor, gets put on anti-depressants, and suddenly they have this disease. I just don't buy it. For those who suffer from depression, stay in prayer, work on humility (as we all should...me, too!), and read St. Francis deSales cause he's the man!
Era Might Posted March 1, 2006 Posted March 1, 2006 (edited) I definitely agree that medication can easily be used as a crutch so that people do not deal with the real problem. The first response to depression, always, must be spiritual. My only point is that we cannot throw out the biological factor, as it is real, and the Church supports medication where appropriate. Nicole hit the nail on the head: "Turning to God may not remove the problem, but we can find joy in suffering." Edited March 1, 2006 by Era Might
Nicole8223 Posted March 1, 2006 Posted March 1, 2006 Just a few more quotes from St. Francis deSales on the subject of depression: "The prince of darkness is pleased with sadness and melancholy because he is and will be sad and melancholy to all eternity; therefore, he desires that every one should be like himself." "Oppose vigorously the least inclination to sadness, and, although it may seem that all your actions are at that time performed with tepidity and sloth, you must nevertheless, persevere; for the enemy who seeks by sadness to make us weary of good works , seeing that we cease not on that account to perform this, and that, being performed in spite of his opposition, they become more meritorious, will cease to trouble any longer." "But frequently the holy communion is the best remedy because this heavenly bread strengthens the heart and rejoices the spirit."
ironmonk Posted March 1, 2006 Author Posted March 1, 2006 [quote name='Era Might' date='Mar 1 2006, 10:32 AM']That's fine. But the Church does accept this point of biology, and encourages her children to seek medical help when necessary. [right][snapback]900688[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Biology has nothing to do with faith or morals. For hundreds of years the Church has been the only psychological help around and it worked. Psychological problems seem to have grown in proportion to lack of Catholic faith in society. People have the power and freewill to change their point of view.
ironmonk Posted March 1, 2006 Author Posted March 1, 2006 Emotions will always change, we must gain control of our emotions. We have freewill to look at things the way we want to. Our outlook is a major factor in our happiness. Discipline is a great weapon against depression. We must use our time as Christ wants us to, not lazy sulking in saddness, this is where discipline comes in, life goes on and we will get through any sad times if we live the way Christ wants us to... and have the proper point of view.
Paphnutius Posted March 1, 2006 Posted March 1, 2006 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Mar 1 2006, 09:03 AM']Biology has nothing to do with faith or morals. [right][snapback]900708[/snapback][/right] [/quote]You are splitting hairs Ironmonk. Anything that has to do with the human condition may in some way or another fall into either faith or morals. Abortion arguments deal a great deal with biology and anatomy, but does that mean it is not a moral question? The effects of drugs deals with biology and anatomy, may the Church not speak on the morality of drugs because it deals with biology? [quote]For hundreds of years the Church has been the only psychological help around and it worked. [/quote]And so you admit that psychological help is often a viable option (and in some cases the only?) [quote]People have the power and freewill to change their point of view.[/quote]This only begs the question we are discussing. Is it merely a point of view or are the other factors that may come into play? That it is only a point of view has yet to be proven
Era Might Posted March 1, 2006 Posted March 1, 2006 (edited) [quote name='ironmonk' date='Mar 1 2006, 11:03 AM']Biology has nothing to do with faith or morals. [right][snapback]900708[/snapback][/right] [/quote] It does, in an indirect way. The Church supports the use of medication to treat depression, when appropriate. Hence, we know this is not immoral or un-Catholic. We are certainly free not to seek such help. But we are not free to contradict the Church's judgement that medical treatment of depression is morally licit and entirely acceptable. Edited March 1, 2006 by Era Might
Paphnutius Posted March 1, 2006 Posted March 1, 2006 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Mar 1 2006, 09:06 AM']Emotions will always change, we must gain control of our emotions. We have freewill to look at things the way we want to. Our outlook is a major factor in our happiness. Discipline is a great weapon against depression. We must use our time as Christ wants us to, not lazy sulking in saddness, this is where discipline comes in, life goes on and we will get through any sad times if we live the way Christ wants us to... and have the proper point of view. [right][snapback]900711[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Oh we agree, this all goes into the battle for most people. Humans are both spiritual and physical beings. What happens in one area of our life will affect another. If a person is suffering from some physical ailment it will affect their spirituality and such in one way or another.
Noel's angel Posted March 1, 2006 Posted March 1, 2006 I get a little thing sent to me every day, and this one seems to be quite apt: God wastes nothing! -------------------- 2 Corinthians 1:3-7 For as we share abundantly in Christ's sufferings, so through Christ we share abundantly in comfort too. If we are afflicted, it is for your comfort and salvation; and if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which you experience when you patiently endure the same sufferings that we suffer. Our hope for you is unshaken; for we know that as you share in our sufferings, you will also share in our comfort. -------------------- The simple obvious "solution" to evil is to simply never allow it to happen. This seems wisest to us, yet for his own profoundly mysterious reasons, God has disagreed with us and chosen to conquer evil, not by annihilating it, but by making even evil the paradoxical servant of God and by thereby ennobling those who have endured it with the same glory as his Son. At the heart of the Christian faith is the mystery of the cross and of redemptive suffering. Even God himself has suffered evil. But in so suffering he has more than merely defeated evil, he has made it the occasion of good that makes death itself a door into heaven and not just a hole in the ground. It is a mystery that is literally beyond words. If you are bearing your cross today, know that through it you are being made, in the darkest and most impenetrable mystery of the universe, an agent of God's power and work in the world for the salvation of others. In the light of the cross, nothing—-not even suffering—-is wasted.
Era Might Posted March 1, 2006 Posted March 1, 2006 (edited) By the way, the Bible did recommend medication for depression: [quote]Give strong drink to him who is perishing, and wine to those in bitter distress. Let them drink and forget their poverty, and remember their misery no more. --Proverbs 31:6-7[/quote] Today, thanks to modern science, we have medication which can specifically treat depression, and don't have to rely on wine. This is sometimes the appropriate way to let people "remember their misery no more." Edited March 1, 2006 by Era Might
Azriel Posted March 1, 2006 Posted March 1, 2006 Suffer from clinical depression and then get back to me on whether or not you can just "change your outlook". Tell a person who is bi-polar, manic, or suffers from Anxiety to JUST GET OVER IT. Tell my best friend who lost her son, her mother, and had a husband who walked out on her ... who prays her Rosary faithfully, who still counts her blessings, and who does her best to walk with God to just get over her Panic Attacks. I'm out of this thread before I say something I'm going to regret.
Nicole8223 Posted March 1, 2006 Posted March 1, 2006 [quote name='Noel's angel' date='Mar 1 2006, 11:15 AM']I get a little thing sent to me every day, and this one seems to be quite apt: God wastes nothing! -------------------- 2 Corinthians 1:3-7 For as we share abundantly in Christ's sufferings, so through Christ we share abundantly in comfort too. If we are afflicted, it is for your comfort and salvation; and if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which you experience when you patiently endure the same sufferings that we suffer. Our hope for you is unshaken; for we know that as you share in our sufferings, you will also share in our comfort. -------------------- The simple obvious "solution" to evil is to simply never allow it to happen. This seems wisest to us, yet for his own profoundly mysterious reasons, God has disagreed with us and chosen to conquer evil, not by annihilating it, but by making even evil the paradoxical servant of God and by thereby ennobling those who have endured it with the same glory as his Son. At the heart of the Christian faith is the mystery of the cross and of redemptive suffering. Even God himself has suffered evil. But in so suffering he has more than merely defeated evil, he has made it the occasion of good that makes death itself a door into heaven and not just a hole in the ground. It is a mystery that is literally beyond words. If you are bearing your cross today, know that through it you are being made, in the darkest and most impenetrable mystery of the universe, an agent of God's power and work in the world for the salvation of others. In the light of the cross, nothing—-not even suffering—-is wasted. [right][snapback]900720[/snapback][/right] [/quote] The question to me would then be what does it mean to carry your cross in terms of depression? To carry one's cross in any other situation would be to joyfully suffer in unity with Christ. Depression, by its nature, is contrary to joy. So in order to carry the cross, the person must find the root cause of the depression, and then rejoice in the suffering of this root cause. By joyfully suffering, the depression is non-existent.
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