Woman Rabbi teaches Relegion at Catholic school

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Apr 1 2006, 12:26 AM']Whats your point. The woman is teaching jewish studies to catholics.
The whole Talmud is not anti-christian. Have you actually read it???
Have you ever been to  a class taught by a rabbi? Have you ever been to a Sedar?? Because some jews lied during the inquistion you condemn them all?  Would it occur to you that catholics lie as well?? Do you know what ecumenism is???
[right][snapback]930741[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
For the sake of EENS, ecumenism is defined as "movement promoting unity among Christian churches or denominations." Obviously, Judaism isn't relevant to that.

I think that much of the anti-Jewish comments are made out of ignorance. I grew up with plenty of Jews, yet I still needed to grow out of some anti-Jewish conspiracy theories.

On the other hand, I think it's insane that Catholic churches feel such a need to educate Catholics (both as parish efforts and school classes) in the beliefs and traditions of other religions for a simple reason: we've got a whole generation of Catholics who have not got a clue about their own religion's beliefs and traditions. Many "faithful" are even openly hostile to Catholic beliefs, because no one bothered to teach them the reasoning behind the Catholic Faith.

So, if we're going to teach about a religion that is alien to today's Catholics, let it be the Catholic Faith.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='jasJis' date='Apr 1 2006, 06:20 AM']I thought you quit phatmass at 10:31, yet we are subjected to more of your immature rants.

Somebody's hankerin' for a spankerin'...
[right][snapback]931191[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

be quiet. you add nothing to this conversation.

what i said is true.
[quote]    * Epistula VIII, St. Gregory the Great (590-604) advised Catholics not to give Jews an absolute liberty because of the frequent offenses they made against the Faith. (1) In letters to the Frankish Kings Theodoric and Theobert and to Queen Brunehaut, he reminded them that Christians, members of the Body of Christ, should never be stepped on by Jews, enemies of Christ. (2)

    * Honorius I (625-638) encouraged the 6th Council of Toledo (638) to act energetically regarding the danger the Jews represented for the Catholic Faith. (3)

    * Leo VII (936-939) authorized the Archbishop of Moguncia, Germany, to expel the Jews from the city, given the constant attacks they launched against Catholics. (4)

    * In letter of January 17, 1208 addressed to the Count of Nevers, France, Innocent III (1198-1216) lamented that the Jews were making use of usury to exploit Christians. (5)

    * Gregory IX (1227-1241) wrote to the Western Bishops and Sovereigns ordering that all copies of the Jewish Talmud be apprehended. He charged William of Auvergne, Bishop of Paris, with organizing an investigation to verify whether or not the Talmud contained articles against the Catholic Faith. At its conclusion, the Talmud was condemned and copies of it were burned publicly in Paris in 1242. At the demand of the Jews, the Talmud was submitted to a new examination in 1248 and was definitively condemned by William of Auvergne along with the masters of theology of Paris, among them St. Albert the Great. (6) In the work Excerpta talmudica, written to justify this condemnation, one reads:

          “By a secret design of Divine Providence, the errors, blasphemies, and outrages contained in the Talmud have escaped the eyes of the doctors of the Church until this day. The wall has finally been removed and one can clearly see the reptiles, the abominable idols that the House of Israel adores.”(7)

    * Innocent IV (1243-1254) ordered the Talmud to be burned because it was filled with errors and blasphemies. (8) In the Bull Sicut tua nobis of July 23, 1254, he authorized the Archbishop of Vienna to act with energy against the Jews for their constant blasphemies and actions against the Catholic Faith. (9)

    * In the Bull Damnabili perfidia of July 15, 1267, Clement IV (1265-1268) also condemned the Talmud. (10)

    * In the Bull Nimis in partibus anglicanis of November 8, 1285, Honorius IV (1285-1287) took the same action as his predecessors regarding the Talmud. (11)

    * John XXII (1316-1334) also repudiated the errors of the Talmud with the Bull Dudum felicis recordationis of September 4, 1320. (12)

    * In the Bull Dudum as nostrum of August 8, 1442, Eugene IV (1431-1447) forbade the Jews not only from living with Christians, as the Third Lateran Council had established in its Decreta (V, VI, 5), but also from living among Christians, given the continuous blasphemies and attacks of the Jews against the Catholic Faith. (13)

    * Nicolas V (1447-1455), Calixtus III (1455-1458), and Paul IV (1464-1471) renewed the condemnations of their predecessors. (14)

    * In the Bull Intenta semper salutis of May 31, 1484, Sixtus IV (1471-1484) commanded that the Jews in Spain should live separate from Christians to protect the latter from permanent danger to their Faith threatened by contact with Jews. (15)

    * Leo X (1513-1521) known for his goodness toward the Jews, was nonetheless obliged several times to thwart Jewish blasphemies and abuses against the Catholic Faith. (16)

    * Julius III (1550-1555) approved the Inquisition to seek out and burn the Talmud in 1553. In the Bull Cum sicut nuper, of May 29, 1554, the Pope ordered the Jews to hand over all their books that contained offenses against Our Lord Jesus Christ. (17)

    * Paul IV (1555-1559) took severe measures in order to defend the integrity of the Faith and prevent the Jews from dominating Catholics. The Jews tried to bribe Paul IV by offering him 40,000 escudos to annul his Bull Cum nimis absurdum, which legislated against the Jews in the Pontifical States. (18) Along with other measures, the Pontiff ordered the destruction of the Talmud. (19)

    * Pius IV (1560-1565) placed the Talmud on the Index librorum prohibitorum [Index of prohibited books] in 1564; he also prohibited its glossaries, interpretations and expositions. (20)

    * In the Bull Hebraeorum gens of February 26, 1569, St. Pius V (1566-1572) condemned in particular the practice of “divination, sortilege, sorcery and witchcraft” among Jews. (21) In that bull St. Pius V also accused the Jews of the crimes of usury, robbery, receiving stolen objects, and the exploitation of prostitution. He ended the Bull with these words:

          “Finally, we consider as known and proven how offensively this perverse generation [the Jews] uses the name of Christ, how hostile it is to those who carry the name of Christians, even making attempts against their lives.” (22)

    * He expelled them from the Pontifical Territories since, in addition to the mentioned crimes, the Jews spied for the Muslims and supported their plans of conquest that endangered all Christendom. (23)

      In the Brief of May 3, 1569, St. Pius V also affirmed: “We know that this most perverse people have been the seed-bag of almost all the heresies.” (24)

      To this vigilant energy against the Jewish perfidy, St. Pius V added his zealous desire for their conversion. One of the most remarkable conversions he achieved was that of the chief-rabbi of Rome, Elias, followed by the conversions of his three sons and one grandson. On June 4, 1566, they solemnly received Baptism at the Vatican in the presence of the Sacred College of Cardinals. (25)

    * In the Brief of May 27, 1581, Gregory XIII (1572-1585) warned the faithful and religious authorities against the false conversions of Jews as a means to infiltrate the Catholic Church. (26) In the Bull Antiqua judeorum improbitas of June 1, 1581, the Pontiff established these conditions for when Jews must be submitted to the vigilance of the Inquisition:

          a. when they attack Catholic dogmas;
          b. when they invoke devils or offer sacrifices to them;
          c. when they teach Catholics to do the same;
          d. when they speak blasphemies against Our Lord and Our Lady;
          e. when they try to induce Catholics to abandon their Faith;
          f. when they forbid a Jew or an infidel to convert;
          g. when they consciously favor heretics;
          h. when they disseminate heretical books;
          i. when, in disdain for Our Lord, they crucify a lamb – principally on Good-Friday –    and then spit on it and spew it with insults.
          j. when they oblige Catholic wet-nurses to pour their milk into the toilettes and sewers after they have received the Eucharist. (27)

    * In the Bull Cum hebraeorum of February 28, 1593, (28) Clement VIII (1592-1605) proscribed the Talmud, the books of the Kabala, as well as works written in Hebrew that contained errors. (29) The prohibition contained in this bull was included as a norm in the Index published on March 27, 1596. In the Bull Caeca et obdurate of January 25, 1593, this Pontiff also introduced new exhortations for the conversion of the Jews. (30)

    * In the Brief of January 15, 1628 to the King of Spain, Urban VIII (1623-1644), dealt with the crime of usury practiced by the Jews in Portugal. (31)

    * On September 15, 1751, Benedict XIV (1740-1758) signed and promulgated a document that reaffirmed the measures of caution regarding the Talmud taken by the Popes since Innocent IV. (32)

    * In October 1775 and in January 1793, Pius VI (1775-1799) published two edicts confirming the directives of Benedict XIV regarding the Jews. (33)

    * St. Pius X (1903-1914), through his Secretary of State, Cardinal Merry del Val, praised the classic work of Msgr. Henri Delassus, La conjuration antichrétienne [The Anti-Christian Conspiracy], which exposes the conspiracy of Judaism and Freemasonry against the Catholic Church and Christian Civilization. (34)[/quote]

[Paladin D]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Apr 1 2006, 12:21 AM']i know what their relegion teaches.
[right][snapback]930726[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Isn't this what many anti-Catholics say?

I would rather learn about Judaism from a Jew, since they grew up in the faith and were taught it. Just as someone should learn about the Catholic faith from an orthodox Catholic.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='Paladin D' date='Apr 1 2006, 11:38 AM']Isn't this what many anti-Catholics say?

I would rather learn about Judaism from a Jew, since they grew up in the faith and were taught it.  Just as someone should learn about the Catholic faith from an orthodox Catholic.
[right][snapback]931512[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

we have the truth. would you rather learn about a false relegion from a catholic or from an infedel who will try and convert you?

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Apr 1 2006, 11:47 AM']we have the truth. would you rather learn about a false relegion from a catholic or from an infedel who will try and convert you?
[right][snapback]931547[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Sam, you hold the falicious opinion that every person has the hidden agenda of trying to convert you. This is not necesarily the case.

Some people are lukewarm in their faith, and have no intention to try to convert anyone. You cannot prove that she had the agenda of converting them.

[Paladin D]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Apr 1 2006, 11:47 AM']we have the truth. would you rather learn about a false relegion from a catholic or from an infedel who will try and convert you?
[right][snapback]931547[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]


That's what some Protestants say too. Your answer is predictable.

Why would a Jew [b]lie[/b] about their faith, if they sincerely believed in it? Come on man, this is typical of what anti-Catholics say to Catholics.

By the way, are you Muslim? What's with the [b]infedel[/b] carp?

[MC Just]

Catholics need to teach religion in Catholic schools, not Jews or anyone else. My goodness. When will people learn. Why are people so against having things strictly "catholic" we are catholic for heavens sake! Judaism is false, it has been since christ founded the CHURCH.

Edited April 1, 2006 by MC Just

[Paladin D]

[quote name='MC Just' date='Apr 1 2006, 12:05 PM']Catholics need to teach religion in Catholic schools, not Jews or anyone else. My goodness. When will people learn. Why are people so against having things strictly "catholic" we are catholic for heavens sake! Judaism is false, it has been since christ founded the CHURCH.
[right][snapback]931609[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]


I believe that the main focus should be on the Catholic faith, since we have a large percentage who are ignorant on much of their own beliefs. However, I also don't see a problem in educating people on the history and beliefs of Judaism, since it is where Christianity is based from.

I don't mind if a Jew teaches Judaism in a Catholic school, just as long as he/she isn't promoting her religion in hopes of converting students. Yet again, if there is an alternative teacher who is Catholic and is extremely knowledable in Judaism, then I would rather have him/her teach on that subject.






[b]EDIT:[/b] Judaism may not be the Catholic Church, but I will not dare label Jews as if they're bound to hell, since the were the chosen people of God. Moses, Abraham, Joshua, and etc., were Jews! Don't start dissing them man.

There is no problem in educating one's self about another religion. Isn't this the same beaver dam problem we're having with anti-Catholics who are ignorant of our faith?

[MC Just]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Apr 1 2006, 09:05 AM']be quiet. you add nothing to this conversation.

what i said is true.
[right][snapback]931269[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

i agree with the quotes, but of course noone else is going to agree with Popes from the 1500's or the 1800's. things have so called "changed". lol

Edited April 1, 2006 by MC Just

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

Catholicism has nothing to do with modern day Judiaism, which is talmudism.

Catholicism is connected to the old testament relegion, but not the jewish relegion of today.

the woman will indoctrinate the children and tell them modern talmudism and ancient Judiasm are one in the same.

[MC Just]

my point is, this is why the church in america is suffering so much, it looks to everything but ORTHODOXY! i dont believe the church needs to learn from anyone else. It has the Hoyl Spirit and will be guided into all truth.

Edited April 1, 2006 by MC Just

[Paladin D]

[quote name='MC Just' date='Apr 1 2006, 12:13 PM']my point is, this is why the church in america is suffering so much, it looks to everything but ORTHODOXY! i dont believe the church needs to learn from anyone else. It has the Hoyl Spirit and will be guided into all truth.
[right][snapback]931626[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]


There are plenty of ignorant Catholics out there.

[MC Just]

[quote name='Paladin D' date='Apr 1 2006, 11:17 AM']There are plenty of ignorant Catholics out there.
[right][snapback]931632[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Thats because there are ignorant leaders who let the enemy in and topple the citadel.

[Paladin D]

From [b]CATHOLIC ANSWERS:[/b]

[url="http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0510qq.asp"]http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0510qq.asp[/url]

[i][b]Q: Is the study of the Talmud useful for understanding Catholicism?[/b]

A: Let’s first understand what the Talmud is. Generally speaking, the Talmud is the gathered oral tradition of one school of early Judaism that is used in modern Judaism to explain and interpret the Torah, or the "Five Books of Moses" (Genesis–Deuteronomy). The tradition of this school (roughly identified with the Pharisees) remained oral until the second century A.D., when the process of reducing it to writing began. This process lasted until around the fifth century A.D. The Talmud consists of two major writings: the Mishnah (the original commentary on the Torah) and the Gemara (the elaborations on the Mishnah).

Catholic scholars find it useful to study the Talmud because it sheds light on certain New Testament passages. For non-scholars, there is a danger of reading back into the New Testament the ideas of a later age or of thinking that all first-century Jews thought as the Talmud authors did.

In principle, Christian revelation is sufficient in itself. While other historical information may be helpful, it is not necessary for establishing or understanding any point of the Christian faith.

Whether the Talmud will be helpful to you in understanding Catholicism depends on how familiar you are with Judaism and Catholicism. A solid foundation in Catholic thought is an indispensable prerequisite for a Catholic studying the Talmud. You should know your own faith as it explains itself before attempting to illuminate difficult passages through the writings of another faith. You also should be well versed in what the Talmud is and how Talmudic arguments are made. If you are already familiar with where Judaism and Catholicism intersect and have a good understanding of the Talmud—including its limitations—studying the Talmud may be helpful. But if you do not have the necessary background, Talmud study for a Christian may be more confusing than helpful.[/i]

[MC Just]

once again its obvious, non-catholics shouldnt be teaching Catholics.