For Cam especially...

[Lil Red]

Eternal rest grant unto her, O Lord, and let perpetual light shine upon her.

[Tarcisius]

May She be brought quickly to HIS Presence.

I think you acted in a Catholic manner by calling in the SSPX Priest.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Tarcisius' date='Mar 26 2006, 10:39 AM']May She be brought quickly to HIS Presence.

I think you acted in a Catholic manner by calling in the SSPX Priest.
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Calling in someone outside the Church is wrong.

May the Lord shine His face on her, and give her eternal joy in His house.

[Tarcisius]

Why do you wish so much for the SSPX to be out of the Church? Rome says they are in communion.

[cmotherofpirl]

They ARE out of the Church. THey will be in comunion when they obediently and humbly return to the Chair of Peter and ask to come back home.

[cmotherofpirl]

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=49687"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=49687[/url]

[Tarcisius]

You seem, like many, to hold an emotional stance on the subject. If the Pope said as clear as he could that they are have been In the Church would you still hold onto your view? I understand the SSPX has problems but a Cardinal even you believe is In the Church clearly says they are in communion, I will believe him.

The statement of Cardinal Castrillon
(made) on the TV network Canal 5
November 13, 2005

The ancient latin mass is suggestive but also a source of conflict. Today,
in order to celebrate it publicly, one must have permission from the local
Bishop, but for several months now, rumor has been circulating that
Benedict XVI might free it from this obligation. This continual rumor,
nevertheless, is not reflected in the comments of Cardinal Castrillon, the
Prefect of the Congregation for Clergy and the principal architect of the
dialogue with traditionalist groups, beginning with the SSPX, which
includes the followers of Archbishop Lefebvre.

Cardinal Castrillon: "This has been rule. The bishop is the one who
decides. It is up to the Bishop to determine whether this is fitting for
his diocese at any given time, or if it is not, for whatever pastoral
reasons that he might have and for which he will have to report to the
authority of the Pope, but especially, to Jesus, and to God.

Therefore, this is a question of reaffirming the autority of the bishops,
but at the same time, a call to their conscience to avoid useless
inflexibility, and to contribute to the long process of dialogue with the
Lefebvrists, which had already been undertaken under the pontificate of
John-Paul II, who, in 1988, had excommunicated the French Archibishop for
having ordained four bishops in an illicit fashion.

This dialogue seems to have received a new impetus with the meeting, last
summer at Castel Gandolfo, of Benedict XVI and the superior of the SSPX,
Msgr. Fellay.

We are [b]not[/b] dealing with a case of heresy. One cannot say in correct and
exact terms that there is a schism. There is, in the act of ordaining
bishops with out papal approval, a schismatic attitude.[b] They are within
the confines of the Church.[/b] The problem is just that there is a lack of a
full, a more perfect – and as it was said during the meeting with Msgr.
Fellay – a more full communion,[b] because communion exists.[/b]

[cmotherofpirl]

A schismatic act created a schism.
When they repent and come home, then they will be in "communion "with the Catholic Church.

[Tarcisius]

Im not sure how you reconcile that with the Cardinals statements. Again it seems as though you spitefully want the SSPX faithful out of the Church.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Tarcisius' date='Mar 26 2006, 12:17 PM']Im not sure how you reconcile that with the Cardinals statements. Again it seems as though you spitefully want the SSPX faithful out of the Church.
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You don't get it.
If you are following a schismatic bishop, you are not in the church, you are on the outside looking in. Its not spiteful to expect obedience to the Church and Magisterium if you claim to be catholic.
If the church has a Trid mass in your area and you want to go , thats fine. But if it doesn't you go to the normative Mass of your diocese. You are not required to like the choir or the sermon or the priest. If they are not following the GIRM you have a right to ask the bishop, or papal Nuncio to enforce it. You do not have the right to set up a separate organization and go outside of obedient behavior because you are not happy.
Instead of separate parishes etc, join your local parish, get on all the boards, be in the choir etc and improve the parish you are in. Ask for smells and bells and chant and rosary crusades and adoration and a beautiful church and reverance to boot.

[Tarcisius]

The Cardinal says they are in communion. Rome says that if you doubt the validity of the NO, do not attend. Rome says that those who attend an SSPX Mass without a schismatic attitude are fine.

[Cam42]

[quote name='Tarcisius' date='Mar 26 2006, 01:17 PM']Im not sure how you reconcile that with the Cardinals statements. Again it seems as though you spitefully want the SSPX faithful out of the Church.
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Because the Cardinal said this:

[quote name='Cardinal Castrillion Hoyos'][b]There is[/b], in the act of ordaining bishops with out papal approval, [b]a schismatic attitude.[/b][/quote]

Thanks for giving support to Cmom. Unfortunately for you, you bolded the wrong part of the paragraph.

Rome does not say they are in full communion. They have an incorrect view of Tradition. Would you like to point to where Rome says they are in full communion?

Would you like to point to where Rome has lifted the excommunications and the schims outlined in Motu Proprio Ecclesia Dei? I would be interested in reading that.

Please don't simply ignore the questions. It is so typical for the SSPX and their supporters to simply NOT answer those questions. So, if you are going to call Cmom out, I will call you out. Good Luck.

[Tarcisius]

O noooo you called me out..nahhhhhh

They are within
the confines of the Church. The problem is just that there is a lack of a
full, a more perfect – and as it was said during the meeting with Msgr.
Fellay – a more full communion, because communion exists.

So typical of Neo-cons to avoid that statement, it says it all, COMMUNION EXISTS, THEY ARE WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THE CHURCH.

Lefebvre might still be excommunicated right now, but that does not auto-excommunicate everyone else.

And again I must ask why do you all want/crave the excomunication of those faithfull to the SSPX, you want them to suffer damnation because they want to give more reverence to the Lord then can be found at any NO parish.

[Cam42]

[quote name='Tarcisius' date='Mar 26 2006, 06:09 PM']O noooo you called me out..nahhhhhh

They are within
the confines of the Church. The problem is just that there is a lack of a
full, a more perfect – and as it was said during the meeting with Msgr.
Fellay – a more full communion, because communion exists.

So typical of Neo-cons to avoid that statement, it says it all, COMMUNION EXISTS, THEY ARE WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THE CHURCH.

Lefebvre might still be excommunicated right now, but that does not auto-excommunicate everyone else.

And again I must ask why do you all want/crave the excomunication of those faithfull to the SSPX, you want them to suffer damnation because they want to give more reverence to the Lord then can be found at any NO parish.
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Nice dodge. Answer the questions. Typical. We don't crave the excommunication, we simply recognize it. We are obedient to the mandate of the Papacy.

[Tarcisius]

Im not tryin to play word games with you, I answered the questions, I showed you where Rome says they are in comunion, I aswered the excom statement. You continually ignore the important few lines that I posted and try to scare me off with bully tactics, i dont care about winning an argument or anything else but the truth, you seem to care about keeping your SSPX predjudices justified.

[Jaime]

Oooh boy

This could be on pay per view!

[brendan1104]

Edited March 27, 2006 by brendan1104

[rkwright]

[quote name='Tarcisius' date='Mar 26 2006, 11:24 AM']Therefore, this is a question of reaffirming the autority of the bishops,
but at the same time, a call to their conscience to avoid useless
inflexibility, and to contribute to the long process of dialogue with the
Lefebvrists, which had already been undertaken under the pontificate of
John-Paul II, who, in 1988, had [b]excommunicated[/b] the French Archibishop for
having ordained four bishops in an illicit fashion.

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If they are in communion, why are they excommunicated (means NOT in communion) as your own article states?

[Tarcisius]

those faithfull to SSPX are not excomunicated, only Lefebvre and possiblly the Bishops he consecrated, that is it.

[rkwright]

[quote name='Tarcisius' date='Mar 26 2006, 06:41 PM']those faithfull to SSPX are not excomunicated, only Lefebvre and possiblly the Bishops he consecrated, that is it.
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and why again would you be more faithful to an excommunicatd Bishop than the Church??