missionseeker Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 26 2006, 01:05 AM']Im not saying anything. Archbishop Lefebvre said he was. And So does Bishop Fellay. The Pope is the keeper of tradition and should not abandon it. [right][snapback]922507[/snapback][/right] [/quote] said the pope was wrong? I'm confused Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 yes. Archbishop Lefebvre does not except what he calls "the modernistic" interpretation of Vatican II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missionseeker Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 the interpretation is one thing what the documents actually say is another. If he accepts the documents themselves but not the interpretation (which has more to do with indivual preists and bishops than the pope), that is two different things. I'll agree with the idea that people have misinterpreted the documents of vaticanII and there is a widespread abuse of the liturgy However, I know that the Lefebvrites do not think that the documents are in any way valid I have a question. St. Padre Pio was declared a saint by Pope John Paul II - you claim him as a saint, but I've heard some Trads say that NOTHING AT ALL after 1965 is relevant/oficial. Why do they take the saints, that's like Cafeteria Catholics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anastasia13 Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 25 2006, 11:10 PM']what is that supposed to mean? [right][snapback]922509[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Oh, wait, are you saying that was supposed to be one of the miracles ascribed to him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 [quote name='missionseeker' date='Mar 26 2006, 01:29 AM']the interpretation is one thing what the documents actually say is another. If he accepts the documents themselves but not the interpretation (which has more to do with indivual preists and bishops than the pope), that is two different things. I'll agree with the idea that people have misinterpreted the documents of vaticanII and there is a widespread abuse of the liturgy However, I know that the Lefebvrites do not think that the documents are in any way valid I have a question. St. Padre Pio was declared a saint by Pope John Paul II - you claim him as a saint, but I've heard some Trads say that NOTHING AT ALL after 1965 is relevant/oficial. Why do they take the saints, that's like Cafeteria Catholics [right][snapback]922513[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Lefebvre taught that Vatican II was a valid council called by a valid pope. He said that it was taken over by modernists. and that the documents were written ambigiously, and have been interpreted in light of modernism. those trads were probably Sedevecantists. Most trads believe that the Saints Canonized are real saints, becuase their canonization just means that they are in heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 Pope Benedict XVI was a modernist? Well I'll be That's actually pretty much the most backwards thing I've ever heard on phatmass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary-Kathryn Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 Here's my hero [url="http://www.presentationmate.com/wilbourn_memorial.htm"]http://www.presentationmate.com/wilbourn_memorial.htm[/url] Hope the link works...oh by the way, I'm not affiliated with this company in any way. Just was looking for a picture of Trey that would post here..I'm not computer savvy. Trey died the last day of the war. I know, I know, I just pulled a You are missed Trey, Mary-Kathryn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 Sam, how old are you? I think that should settle who knows more, you or Pope Benedict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 (edited) [quote name='brendan1104' date='Mar 25 2006, 09:14 PM']Luther is definitely in hell. era, what will you think of my spiritual father if his "excommunication" and "schism" are annuled/lifted? [right][snapback]922324[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Wow! How do you know this information? Do you know for certain Martin Luther is in hell? I think God is the only One who has the authority when it comes to one's salvation. Point is LeFabvre rejected the authority of the pope; an office appointed by Christ Himself, and ordained his own bishops against the authority of the pope. If that's not evil, I don't know what is. I don't see LeFabvre becoming a saint anytime soon. That's just me. Anyone is free to argue against me, but I don't think these kind of actions are pleasing to God. Edited March 26, 2006 by Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 (edited) [quote name='brendan1104' date='Mar 25 2006, 09:14 PM']Luther is definitely in hell. era, what will you think of my spiritual father if his "excommunication" and "schism" are annuled/lifted? [right][snapback]922324[/snapback][/right] [/quote] LeFabvre died in schism. Therefore, isn't it a little late for his excommunication to be annuled? If I remember right, the four bishops he ordained repented and returned to Rome, but I don't believe he did. Sorry, but you have no valid argument. Edited March 26, 2006 by Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 25 2006, 09:22 PM'] Marcel Lefebvre is such a good Bishop. i know all of you do not think that but, hes Book Open Letter to Confused Catholics is inspiriong. I read it. He writes so charitably and so clearly. Marcel Lefebvre, Ora Pro Nobis. [right][snapback]922333[/snapback][/right] [/quote] EENS, are you still associated with SSPX? You really are sending mixed signals to the rest of the people at phatmass. You say you're not involved with the SSPX, but yet you defend LeFabvre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peccator Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 While I can agree that the "spirit of Vatican" represents a serious problem...Lefebre disagreed the same way Luther did: By leaving the Church and staying in schism out of free will. No saint has ever done that to my knowledge..so no I consider him the same I do other protestants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Wednesday Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 The fixation on Lefebrve reminds me of the cultish way people adhere to "the Gospel According to Fatima" and pay more attention to that than the actual Catechism and Bible. Time to take a look at the big picture and move on, people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 [quote name='Anthony' date='Mar 26 2006, 11:55 AM']EENS, are you still associated with SSPX? You really are sending mixed signals to the rest of the people at phatmass. You say you're not involved with the SSPX, but yet you defend LeFabvre. [right][snapback]922687[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I support the SSPX, but im not "associated with them" anymore than i am "associated" with the FSSP or the Jesuits, or any other Fraternity, Society, or relegious order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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