A few things to clear up....

[J.R.D]

Most people know who I am and some dont... My name is John Davila. and I have a few questions to answer about the Protesting and as to why Hispanics oppose this bill!

Im one generation away from being an illegal Immagrant. My family are all Immagrants. My family came to this country for a better life and for a better education for thier children. They left Mexico because thier country was not offereing them anything. Mexico is an oppressed country. Thier are people who work for a pay that is practically nothing, people who use the bathroom in holes in the grounds (which are in the streets), people who's floor in thier homes are literally dirt. My family lived like that! My family came to America so we would not have to live like DOGS anymore, or be treated as nothing. But guess what? They were treated as nothing, but they stayed because thier family was recieving an education. They worked the Jobs that nobody else would do, and for a cheaper pay! They cleaned houses, They picked up the disgusting things left in the streets, They built the houses that most of america lives in. 90% percent of California's and Texas agriculture workers are illagal Immagrents. The other 10% are White, Asian, Black and Other races. But one race is 90%!


I hear some people say well they should respect OUR laws and get citizenship. Well I wish it was that easy! I wish My Pepole could just walk up to an Immagration office and the papers be waiting for them. Thier are steps that are so impossible to get by. It takes up to 10 years to recieve citizenship. My Stepfather is an immagrent he came to the USA when we was 13. He applied for citizenship in 1985 and recieved his citizenship in 2004, almost 20 years later!


The governemt wants to build a wall at the border, well who do you think is going to build that wall? I dont think the border patrol is.

The Hispanic People have built this country on thier sweat and blood, whether you like to admit it or not. Who do you think build all them nice spa resorts? Most of maids in the california area, primarily in the wealthy areas, are Female Hispanics.

Can you imagine the mess those houses are going to be in when they leave. oh wait, my bad, sent back!

Must we forget that the forefathers of this country were immagrants. our country was founded on immagration Ideals. Our first President of the United States of America was an immagrent. Your heritage, back to only God knows when, your family were immagrants. WE ARE ALL IMMAGRANTS!

Edited March 31, 2006 by J.R.D

[J.R.D]

One thing I forgot to add.

As a mexican I will always be a Mexican, I will never be equal to the White man. A black man will always be a N***** to the white man. and how can you tell an Irish immagrent, italian immagrent, or a any other race that is not black or brown on thier skin? You can tell for an asian. Now Im not saying all white men and women are like that.

Because of my last name, my hair color, my eye and the color of my skin I will always be mexican. but Never an American!

I may get kicked out here for saying this but It's true.

TO ALL MY HISPANICS STAND UP FOR JUSTICE! STAND UP FOR YOUR PEOPLE, STAND UP FOR YOUR FAMILY, AND STAND UP FOR YOU!

THE GOVERNMENT HAVE WOKEN UP A BEAST AND WE WILL BE HEARED!

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='J.R.D' date='Mar 31 2006, 05:46 PM']One thing I forgot to add.

As a mexican I will always be a Mexican, I will never be equal to the White man. A black man will always be a N***** to the white man. and how can you tell an Irish immagrent, italian immagrent, or a any other race that is not black or brown on thier skin? You can tell for an asian. Now Im not saying all white men and women are like that.
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[/quote]
My friend, you cannot come here spewing hatred and accusing others of it. I don't hate you, but you say I do. How sad that you demand love and then reject it when it's offered, just because you've been raised not to trust "the white man."

[Luthien]

I dont think anyone of any race is less than a human being, but yeah they always will be whats in their blood.

Im European, a huge mixture.

I'll probably never know what kind of predjudice you and yours have to put up with, so Iwon't pretend to know how you feel.

I just want to let you know not all people who are "white" feel that way about other races.

[cappie]

DALLAS — Church leaders in North Texas participated in a press conference on March 23 at the Guadalupe Cathedral here. They spoke in favor of reasonable immigration reform legislation, and strongly against the “enforcement-only” proposal of Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist.

Lutheran Bishop Kevin Kanouse of the Northern Texas/Northern Louisiana Synod warned against bills that would make it a felony crime to be an undocumented worker or to assist one. “It is time for us to be willing to lay ourselves on the line, even if it means jail and prison time.”

Kanouse then began listing ways that conscientious church people might help undocumented workers, such as providing food for the hungry or shelter for the homeless. The sentiment expressed was, “If our Legislature creates laws to arrest us for giving a drink to immigrants among us, then let us be arrested.”

Catholic Bishop Charles Grahmann began with the Book of Leviticus, quoting a number of biblical passages commanding all believers to welcome foreigners and to treat them fairly. He concluded by listing the qualities of immigrant legislation that would constitute fairness, including protecting workplace rights, reuniting families and providing a path to citizenship.

Gene Lantz of North Texas Jobs with Justice said the anti-immigrant proposals would lower wages for all Americans. He said, “If it lowers wages, we’re against it!” Supporters from Unite Here, which has organized hundreds of immigrants into union locals, also talked to reporters and introduced themselves to religious leaders.

The conference was organized by Dallas Area Interfaith, the region’s largest and most comprehensive umbrella group of religious organizations. Spokesperson David Ramirez said, “We will continue to press forward” for “policies that will safeguard the rights and inherent dignity of all migrants, particularly the undocumented, including their rights as workers.”

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

since when did Hispanics "build this country, from their sweat and blood"?

thats ridiculous.

[J.R.D]

Like i said Im not saying ALL white people are like that.

[J.R.D]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 31 2006, 03:58 PM']since when did Hispanics "build this country, from their sweat and blood"?

thats ridiculous.
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[/quote]


Sorry I meant to say "Help build this country....."

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='J.R.D' date='Mar 31 2006, 05:02 PM']Sorry I meant to say "Help build this country....."
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you are correct then.

[MC Just]

Mexicans need to rise up and fix the corrupt government in Mexico. Governments now a days they know everything and nothing at the same time.

[J.R.D]

How can people who are so poor to barely buy food twice a week, rise up?

Its eaither Live and eat the Next day or Die and really not eat the next day.

And who do you think will run the Mexican Government aid? The United States of America

[franciscanheart]

I cant respond in length but I know many who have come here from Mexico. You are applying stereotypes all over the place and to get your way yet when someone else stereotypes Mexicans in that way, they get defensive. I will expound on my thoughts later. I have a hoe down to get to.

[J.R.D]

hugheyforlife dont tell me your agree with all this?

[Luthien]

I don't get this whole "Us against them" thing.

[jasJis]

J.R.D.,
My family, by blood and or marriage, came over on boats with nothing to their name. Some with dark skin, black hair, light skin, brown skin, light skin, blonde hair, round eyes, almond eyes. Some spoke english, all with accents. Many did not speak english at all. Whether light or dark, there was enough that was different to stand out from the born American next door. This country was built on their blood, sweat, and tears too. Some of my family died trying to come here. I'm not talking ancient history. I'm talking within the last year to less than 90 years ago. Relatives I know or knew, ate with, and listened too. I heard their tales, I witnessed and shared some of their struggles.
I know many illegal Mexican residents here. My family has helped people escape to here during my lifetime, including my father who risked jail and the ability to provide for his children (including me). My father volunteered to feed anyone who needed food for his entire adulthood. He fell into the food business at an early age and did that for most of his adult hood. He was good at it and was successfull in helping his parish establish the local food bank that provides free food to 20+ other food banks run by other religions or charitable organizations. During the last weeks of his life, as he was dying of cancer, he'd answer his home phone for some poor soul looking for help. If the chemo didn't make him too weak to drive, he'd gather up his St. Vincent De Paul checkbook, get in his car, and go meet this person.

Did everyone get help? No. Did everyone get a chance to plead their case? Yes. Did every one who got help deserve the help they got? No. Did everyone who deserved help at least get something? Yes. Did everyone who deserved help get all the help they needed? Sometimes. You do the math.

My Guatamalan nephew came here with nothing more than my sister's Iraqi in-laws, which was nothing, not even the ability to speak the language. My mother-in-law came here with $40, a suitcase and a fatherless child. My grandparents came here with cloth bag of clothes, a different language, and each other. The man who works in the office accross from me is hard to understand because he came here at the age of 25 after watching some of his siblings raped and tortured, some killed outright, some died in a 'prison' camp. He lived in a re-education center, lived in a refugee camp, and lived in the bowels of a ship to come here. A family my dad helped came here on a boat with other families and people who killed each other so the food would last as long as their 'voyage'.

It's tough to be an immigrant. America is a land of opportunity unlike anywhere else. The thing is, the fruit doesn't fall off the tree, nor can it be picked while standing on the ground. You've got to climb and work to get it.

I don't know of any of my family, even in the family stories, where any of us were any smarter, harder worker, or luckier than the Mexican illegals I know. Some of them too, were preyed upon by those who were here first and knew the ropes. Some of my family members were exploited but worked hard to bring more of their family here. Some died before they could bring family here, some family died without ever getting here.

One thing my family has in common is we never expected anyone else to carry us or lift us up. All they hoped for, what they left, was the hand that slams you down, keeps you down, and won't let you up.

This country doesn't need any illegal immigrants. This country should be ashamed we have illegal immigrants. This country is a great country and must protect it's citizens. This country should never allow second class workers. My family, whether they came here in 2001, or 1903, are all citizens, whether they snuck in, or had green cards. Ask any of them, even in different languages, what nationality are they, and they will tell you American. Maybe we are mean and selfish because we got ours, but my dad told me if you don't want to be an American, go live somewhere else. He said his mom said it all the time, but she never said it in english, she said it to her friends and acqaitances who shared the nationality of her birth.

I have not problem with Americans who keep the Mexican heritage. My American born dad didn't speak english until he was 12, but never did he think he was anything but American. During WWII, as he and some of his brothers fought on ships and land, never did they fight for anything but America, even when liberating the homeland of their parents.

JRD, it's a tough life for everyone. Be assured, you wouldn't dare look at any member of my family and tell them you or your parents had it rougher because you spoke funny, were a different color, and had an odd name. Also, rest assured, you would not walk away from me if you stepped up to me and told me because I look white, a black man will always be a n*** so my cousin is a n** to her family, my Iraqi b-i-l never had a second's worth of hassle not because he's brown, my father and grandfather never was refused a job because of their name, accent, or religion because they were white, or my other grandfather never was told 'no job for you, you dirty Mick' when my grandmother and infant mom were starving in the city. No. You woldn't walk away at all. You'd be lucky if you could crawl.


Edit to add: JRD, I just checked your profile and according to your birthdate, you're some punk teenage kid. You would walk away the first time, but it would be with a distinct limp and a boot shaped bruise on your butt.

Edited March 31, 2006 by jasJis

[Guest Rick777]

[quote name='MC Just' date='Mar 31 2006, 03:04 PM']Mexicans need to rise up and fix the corrupt government in Mexico.  Governments now a days they know everything and nothing at the same time.
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And us Americans need to rise up and fix ours.

[J.R.D]

JasJis Dont YOU ever call me a punk kid again.

Iv been through worst trials in my short life that YOU only dreamed of in yours okay?

And bruises and imprint of a boot on my butt is a good day.

During the first War in Iraq, christian organizations helped people come to the US. They put them up in Hotels and fed them and did them alot. How come they get the special treatment? Thier imagrants also, are they not? Why dont they The Mexican's like that also? instead of putting in some building and a mat to lay down on the floor?

Didnt president Bush want to open up waters trade for the Saudis? I think that's more dangerous than the border isnt it?

And i REPEAT ONCE AGAIN Not all white people are the same.

You see they want the Mexican Boys to join the Army or Maries, for that they want us. As I recall In Southlake, wealthy neighborhood here in tarranty county, Did not have one Recruiter at thier highschools, but they had every other school. Now why is that? But at Tremble Tech, Northside, Poly, Paschall, Lake Worth, Haltom High school and Castleberry high school. Every Branch of the military was there!

And to say that this country should be ashamed of having illagal immagrants is just plain ignorance. Why? Because the forefather of this country were illegal immagrants. Why? because who was here first? The Indians.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

i guess this is the wrong thread to say this but.... The United States does not need to accept immigration. Frankly i think it needs to stop.

[jasJis]

[quote name='J.R.D' date='Mar 31 2006, 05:42 PM']JasJis Dont YOU ever call me a punk kid again.

Iv been through worst trials in my short life that YOU only dreamed of in yours okay?

And bruises and imprint of a boot on my butt is a good day.

During the first War in Iraq, christian organizations helped people come to the US. They put them up in Hotels and fed them and did them alot. How come they get the special treatment? Thier imagrants also, are they not? Why dont they The Mexican's like that also? instead of putting in some building and a mat to lay down on the floor?

Didnt president Bush want to open up waters trade for the Saudis?  I think that's more dangerous than the border isnt it?

And i REPEAT ONCE AGAIN Not all white people are the same.

You see they want the Mexican Boys to join the Army or Maries, for that they want us. As I recall In Southlake, wealthy neighborhood here in tarranty county, Did not have one Recruiter at thier highschools, but they had every other school. Now why is that? But at Tremble Tech, Northside, Poly, Paschall, Lake Worth, Haltom High school and Castleberry high school. Every Branch of the military was there!

And to say that this country should be ashamed of having illagal immagrants is just plain ignorance. Why? Because the forefather of this country were illegal immagrants. Why? because who was here first? The Indians.
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[/quote]JRD. Please pay attention, I don't want you to miss it.

Punk.

During the first war in Iraq, my sister's in-laws died from American bombs. My dad and his family ate garbage from the butcher and were glad they got it. You don't know me or my life or my trials. Just the idea that you can say your 16 years of plight must be worse than my 45 years of life tells me, and the world, you're a Punk.

Eens,
I don't think you could have picked a more asnine thing to say in any thread.

[Quietfire]

Jas Jis,
Without quoting your entire post #18, I just want to say...



YES!!!
That is my point too.
I posted something yesterday here in reference to a statement by T. Roosevelt and said that I wouldnt debate it.

Your post above pretty much made the point.
My father was commenting today that we should never "not" let immigrants in because this country is a melting pot of people from other countries and that is what makes America...America, but he wondered also that how many immigrants who are fighting for equality and legalization today, if there were a mandatory draft tomorrow, would they still be so willing to become citizens and fight for "thier/our" country.

I watched a group of teens today march up a local street with signs and vigorously waving three Mexican flags and I thought to myself,
"If I truly wanted to be a citizen of this country, wouldnt I be waiving the American flag and not the flag of the country I had left to pursue a better life for?"
Why vigorously wave a flag of a country that you claim oppressed you and you couldnt get away from quick enough?
My family flies no other flag than the American flag. If we did otherwise, people would mistake our house for the United Nations or something.

My grandmother came over on a boat, busted her ass cleaning houses for rich people and took the insults of being a dirty, greasy immigrant with lousy english (which she taught herself) she sent her 5 sons to farms to pick fruits and vegetables from 5 am to sunset everyday except Sunday in the summer(back then people actually closed their businesses on the weekend...shocker!), my dad telling me stories about a big truck parked at a corner and dozens of boys jumping in the back to go to the local farms, and they all had to have jobs during the school year locally. My dad never had less than 3 jobs at the same time until he entered the military.
All 5 boys went into the military, of their own volition, instead of waiting to be drafted and they all fought in the war, they were damned proud to represent and fight for their/our country.
These are the things drilled into us kids by our parents and grandparents. And I wont even start on my Mothers side, who is American Indian. For years the whole family denied that because of the stigma attached to being Indian. They told people they were of Irish decsent.(which simply attached a different stigma to it) To this day I still cant get a straight answer from my mom as to whether she is all or part Indian so I gave up trying.
I saw so much of my own family in your post Jas Jis that it was freaky. I have family members that are multi nationality and when asked what nationality they are, they all say proudly that they are American.

Ok, I said I wouldnt debate it but I had to get that off my chest...sorry.



Pax

Edited April 1, 2006 by Quietfire