jasJis Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 (edited) I love topics that are heated with emotion and intelectual dishonesty. Passion is a good thing, though often misguided. But n-e ways... Just read an interesting article in the Florida Catholic. (No, I didn't re-join, my parish donations (past) gets me free subscription for life) They broke it down into some very good points (or [u]principles[/u] )they will support and what they won't support. Some of the things they want: Easier and fast ways for immigrants to become citizens. Ways to protect immigrant workers that are in 'tranisition'. TEMPORARY guest worker status that is legal and is protected from exploitation. Removal of delays in immigration process that keeps families apart. Some things they don't want: ILLEGAL immigration. Workers that are forced into a postion where they are exploited. Short term remedies or remedies that don't fix a broken system. Remedies that put US Citizens in jepoardy. The HOW is wide open to argument. Above are principles that should be established in resolving the problem. Experts and knowledgeable people are the ones that should be charged with developing how to implement principles. What the public should be debating now are which principles should be established that will provide a framework for the solutions. What other [b]principles[/b] do YOU who call yourselves Catholic or Christian think should be added or eliminated to the above list from the USCCB? Edited April 2, 2006 by jasJis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 That giving aid to an illegal should not be a felony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 [quote name='jasJis' date='Apr 2 2006, 03:03 PM']I love topics that are heated with emotion and intelectual dishonesty. Passion is a good thing, though often misguided. But n-e ways... Just read an interesting article in the Florida Catholic. (No, I didn't re-join, my parish donations (past) gets me free subscription for life) They broke it down into some very good points (or [u]principles[/u] )they will support and what they won't support. Some of the things they want: Easier and fast ways for immigrants to become citizens. Ways to protect immigrant workers that are in 'tranisition'. TEMPORARY guest worker status that is legal and is protected from exploitation. Removal of delays in immigration process that keeps families apart. Some things they don't want: ILLEGAL immigration. Workers that are forced into a postion where they are exploited. Short term remedies or remedies that don't fix a broken system. Remedies that put US Citizens in jepoardy. The HOW is wide open to argument. Above are principles that should be established in resolving the problem. Experts and knowledgeable people are the ones that should be charged with developing how to implement principles. What the public should be debating now are which principles should be established that will provide a framework for the solutions. What other [b]principles[/b] do YOU who call yourselves Catholic or Christian think should be added or eliminated to the above list from the USCCB? [right][snapback]933353[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I think I can pretty much concur with both of the lists ... I'd add to the "things I want" list the following: A means for current undocumented immigrants to gain legal status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted April 2, 2006 Author Share Posted April 2, 2006 [quote name='Sojourner' date='Apr 2 2006, 03:13 PM']I think I can pretty much concur with both of the lists ... I'd add to the "things I want" list the following: A means for current undocumented immigrants to gain legal status. [right][snapback]933436[/snapback][/right] [/quote]I agree with that. (Let's not get into a fight about having current illegal immigrants getting legal status for $2,000). But they should get in line, with those who have been here the longest first in line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charms717RM1 Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 [quote name='jasJis' date='Apr 2 2006, 04:54 PM']I agree with that. (Let's not get into a fight about having current illegal immigrants getting legal status for $2,000). But they should get in line, with those who have been here the longest first in line. [right][snapback]933465[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I third that. But about those who've been here the longest being first in line- yeah that would be more fair and just, but because they are undocumented workers, it will be very difficult to figure out who's been here the longest and should be bumped to the top of the line. Wouldn't it? I see chaos and dishonesty if we go that route, even though it's a good idea. Maybe we could have a first come first serve system to figure out who'll be first in line? Just have whoever shows up at the office first be first in line to get their legal status taken care of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Funny... that's what I was saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 [quote name='jasJis' date='Apr 2 2006, 05:54 PM']I agree with that. (Let's not get into a fight about having current illegal immigrants getting legal status for $2,000). But they should get in line, with those who have been here the longest first in line. [right][snapback]933465[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I agree, let's not get into a fight about that. The "how" of it I'm ambivalent about. But the current system (and the proposed system) does not adequately address CURRENT undocumented immigrants. Gotta find a way of addressing that short of deportation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Apr 2 2006, 07:04 PM']Funny... that's what I was saying. [right][snapback]933500[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Was it? I must have been ignoring you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted April 3, 2006 Author Share Posted April 3, 2006 [quote name='Charms717RM1' date='Apr 2 2006, 04:48 PM']I third that. But about those who've been here the longest being first in line- yeah that would be more fair and just, but because they are undocumented workers, it will be very difficult to figure out who's been here the longest and should be bumped to the top of the line. Wouldn't it? I see chaos and dishonesty if we go that route, even though it's a good idea. Maybe we could have a first come first serve system to figure out who'll be first in line? Just have whoever shows up at the office first be first in line to get their legal status taken care of. [right][snapback]933497[/snapback][/right] [/quote]Nothing's perfect, and we are trying to avoid hows. Do you have any principles you'd add (or remove) from the list above? Maybe you read a similar article? Got ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charms717RM1 Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 [quote name='jasJis' date='Apr 2 2006, 06:26 PM']Nothing's perfect, and we are trying to avoid hows. Do you have any principles you'd add (or remove) from the list above? Maybe you read a similar article? Got ideas? [right][snapback]933511[/snapback][/right] [/quote] oops, sorry! I was in a hurry when i read your first post and I totally missed the point of us avoiding the hows- my apologies! I'll keep my mouth shut until i read carefully next time... As for adding onto the list of principles... Hmmm, i'm not sure- they sound pretty good to me. Except that maybe in addition to first one "Easier and fast ways for immigrants to become citizens", we could also make it more appealing for immigrants to become citizens. I guess that goes hand in hand with making the system easier, but I think that if the advantages of citizenship were made clearer or given a greater emphasis- more immigrants would want to become citizens. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelofJesus Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Apr 2 2006, 12:40 PM']That giving aid to an illegal should not be a felony [right][snapback]933411[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I second that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 [quote name='AngelofJesus' date='Apr 3 2006, 01:26 AM']I second that. [right][snapback]933799[/snapback][/right] [/quote] The bill doesn't imply that giving someone food and water will be a felony. Encouraging someone to remain illegally in the United States would be a felony... any good Catholic wouldn't have to worry about this one because a good Catholic that listens to the USCCB and Catholic Teaching would not help someone remain in the US illegally. Because of the severity of the injustice done to illegal aliens and the numbers of businesses that take advantage of them, I think it should be a felony to encourage illegal aliens to remain in the US. As illegal alien numbers drop, a better system of immigration which allows people to enter the US more easily if they do not have criminal records. If they do have criminal records, it would depend on the crime and need to be looked at on a case by case basis. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 (edited) [quote name='ironmonk' date='Apr 3 2006, 12:45 AM']The bill doesn't imply that giving someone food and water will be a felony. Encouraging someone to remain illegally in the United States would be a felony... any good Catholic wouldn't have to worry about this one because a good Catholic that listens to the USCCB and Catholic Teaching would not help someone remain in the US illegally. Because of the severity of the injustice done to illegal aliens and the numbers of businesses that take advantage of them, I think it should be a felony to encourage illegal aliens to remain in the US. As illegal alien numbers drop, a better system of immigration which allows people to enter the US more easily if they do not have criminal records. If they do have criminal records, it would depend on the crime and need to be looked at on a case by case basis. God Bless, ironmonk [right][snapback]933811[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Actually it does leave it open to prosecute anyone who helps illegals and its been shown in previous threads. Just because you disagree does not make it untrue. You would be more aware of it if you hadn't set Sojourner and myself to "ignore". Edited April 3, 2006 by jaime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelofJesus Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Apr 2 2006, 10:45 PM']The bill doesn't imply that giving someone food and water will be a felony. Encouraging someone to remain illegally in the United States would be a felony... any good Catholic wouldn't have to worry about this one because a good Catholic that listens to the USCCB and Catholic Teaching would not help someone remain in the US illegally. Because of the severity of the injustice done to illegal aliens and the numbers of businesses that take advantage of them, I think it should be a felony to encourage illegal aliens to remain in the US. As illegal alien numbers drop, a better system of immigration which allows people to enter the US more easily if they do not have criminal records. If they do have criminal records, it would depend on the crime and need to be looked at on a case by case basis. God Bless, ironmonk [right][snapback]933811[/snapback][/right] [/quote] How do you encourage illegals to stay? When do you cross the line? What is perceived as aiding and abetting vs. humanitarian? For example, an illegal has been without food for days, he thought that at least at home he has beans and tortillas, so he decides to leave and go back home. As he starts his journey he finds a charity center that gives anyone food regardless of status. He decides to stay. Is the charity center guilty? It certainly encouraged the illegal to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apathy Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Some people say that giving a loaf of bread is a good thing, others will just take it from your hands. Live and let live I say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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