The Current Immigration Problem

[jasJis]

[quote name='AngelofJesus' date='Apr 3 2006, 09:19 AM']How do you encourage illegals to stay? When do you cross the line? What is perceived as aiding and abetting vs. humanitarian?

For example, an illegal has been without food for days, he thought  that at least at home he has beans and tortillas, so he decides to leave and go back home.  As he starts his journey he finds a charity center that gives anyone food regardless of status.  He decides to stay. 

Is the charity center guilty? It certainly encouraged the illegal to stay.
[right][snapback]934015[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
AoJ,
Overly hypothetical and not conducive to the thread. So your principle would be...?

[Jaime]

[quote name='jasJis' date='Apr 3 2006, 03:20 PM']AoJ,
Overly hypothetical and not conducive to the thread.  So your principle would be...?
[right][snapback]934440[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

He's simply addressing Ironmonks mistaken position

[AngelofJesus]

[quote name='jasJis' date='Apr 3 2006, 01:20 PM']AoJ,
Overly hypothetical and not conducive to the thread.  So your principle would be...?
[right][snapback]934440[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

It'snot overly hypothetical, in fact it's not hypothetical at all. I sometimes volunteer with soup kitchens and see it all the time. My prinicple would be to let me and others feed the hungry without having to ask them if they have green cards or not.

[jasJis]

AoJ,
It's unneccessary for this thread. Go post it in JRD's thread where it is topically more appropriate, or keep it a bit more general. For example: Suggest clear limits on aid that can be provided to illegal immigrants.
The Bishops don't support or condone illegal immigration so it's pointless to encourage more to come as illegals until a system can be developed and establish the 11 million we have that are mostly being exploited. Don't ruin the ship for a happeth of tar.

[AngelofJesus]

JasJis,

I have no other problem with what is being proposed. I think this country has the right to tighten or loosen it's immigration policies anyway it sees fit to protect it's citizen. Personally, I wish they would give amnesty to the illegals that are already here now. And work out an easier way to give temporary working visas for people that would like a chance to work here. Just don't cross the line of penalizing people or charities for not caring if the people they help have green cards or not. Help, meaning, that all they do is provide food.

In addtion, if everyone who wants to come here is entertained, ID'd, and documented then people crossing the border would lessen. It also would provide the government a way of tracking who is who and where is who. Businesses won't be able to exploit workers because they can actually call the police without fear of deportation. It works both ways. or maybe I'm just not getting this thread.

[J.R.D]

Why should it be a felony for being a good samaritan?

[J.R.D]

In recent days, student protestors across North Texas took a courageous stand for their families by organizing a grass-roots opposition to controversial H.R. 4437 (Sensenbrenner Bill). While expressing our heartfelt support for these young leaders, we, the undersigned members of the Latino professional community, ask that our students remain in school for the time being. Their valued participation will be needed when the time is right.

Like our youth, we too believe that the current Congressional bill criminalizing immigrants serves only to poison the political climate and offers little value in the ongoing immigration debate. And while recognizing the need for real comprehensive immigration reform, including better enforcement of existing laws and greater protections for our national security, the Latino community cannot support any law that, by the stroke of a Washington bureaucrat's pen, makes felons of 11 million hard-working, peaceable, undocumented immigrants, and destroys loving families of mixed households ( i.e., those containing one undocumented parent) by forcefully tearing mothers from their children, and husbands from their wives, in massive, government deportation sweeps.

Although misguided support for H.R. 4437 seems to be driven partly by the myth that undocumented immigrants " drain the resources of this nation," reality sharply contradicts this misperception. Here are the facts:
• The average immigrant pays nearly $1,800 more in taxes than he or she "costs" in public benefits, such as education or healthcare. ( U.S. National Research Council)
• Undocumented immigrants do pay their taxes – local, state, and federal (IRS form 9a) – thereby easing the tax burden on other Americans. (The New York Times)
• They comprised little more than 3 percent of the total U.S. population in 2002 and provided the Social Security's Earnings Suspense File with $463 billion (while ironically they were not eligible for any benefits). (Economic Report of the President)

Beyond the direct economic gains contributed by such immigrants themselves, the entire country feels the enormous beneficial impact of their U.S.-born children. According to the U.S. Census Bureau:
• Hispanic-owned businesses are growing at triple the national rate.
• Hispanic buying power approached $1,000,000,000,000 (one trillion) nationally.

And on a state level, the impact of Latinos is staggering. Last year, they provided over $40 billion in economic growth to Texas (which was second in the nation for Latino-owned businesses) and they controlled over $90 billion in buying power. Locally, Tarrant County (which has the fastest growing Latino population in the entire country) experienced explosive growth in non-traditional, Latino-owned businesses such as real estate, finance, and education, as well as unprecedented growth in the legal and medical fields. More and more, the professional faces we see in this region are Latino.

[jasJis]

JRD,
That wasn't productive, and you already posted it on your thread. Any principles you would add or delte from the above? So far, all we've added is to remove the felony penalty from providing aid to illegal immigrants, but with some sort of qualification so as not to encourage more illegals.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='J.R.D' date='Apr 3 2006, 07:08 PM']Why should it be a felony for being a good samaritan?
[right][snapback]934545[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Being a good sameritan would be paying for their way back to their country of origin.

Breaking the law is not being a good samaritan. Helping people who are illegal stay in America goes against Catholic teaching because it breaks the law.

Humans have a responsibility to the community to which they were born. Instead of running from their country, they should embrace their country and push for social changes... UNLESS they can leave it legally... and live in whatever country they want to go LEGALLY. OTHERWISE - IT IS A SIN... End of story.

[AngelofJesus]

[Sojourner]

[quote name='AngelofJesus' date='Apr 4 2006, 12:03 PM']
[right][snapback]935227[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

[jasJis]

[quote name='J.R.D' date='Apr 3 2006, 05:08 PM']Why should it be a felony for being a good samaritan?
[right][snapback]934545[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]A number of reasons. For one, it's not always being a good samaritin. Review the principles of the USCCB. They do not support or condone illegal immigration. One, illegals come over in an illegal status out of desperation and put themselves in a position to be exploited. We know they are exploited. Illegals come over without their wife and kids often so it splits up families. If they bring their familiy, they put their family at risk. Unfettered aid is a short term solution to a long term help. There is a difference between aiding and abetting and simply providing charitable aid. Some how we have to make a distinction. I personally know of labor pimps who house illegals in order to exploit them. I wouldn't want them to be able to claim they are providing 'charitable aid'.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='jasJis' date='Apr 4 2006, 12:32 PM']A number of reasons.  For one, it's not always being a good samaritin.  Review the principles of the USCCB.  They do not support or condone illegal immigration.  One, illegals come over in an illegal status out of desperation and put themselves in a position to be exploited.  We know they are exploited.  Illegals come over without their wife and kids often so it splits up families.  If they bring their familiy, they put their family at risk.  Unfettered aid is a short term solution to a long term help.  There is a difference  between aiding and abetting and simply providing charitable aid.  Some how we have to make a distinction.  I personally know of labor pimps who house illegals in order to exploit them.  I wouldn't want them to be able to claim they are providing 'charitable aid'.
[right][snapback]935254[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Quite true.

Immigration laws (imperfect though they are) are in part designed to provide some protection to immigrants. I know LEGAL immigrants who are being exploited ... the potential for problems for ILLEGAL immigrants is huge. They're very vulnerable, and people are more than willing to take advantage of that vulnerability.

[jasJis]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Apr 4 2006, 10:40 AM']Quite true.

Immigration laws (imperfect though they are) are in part designed to provide some protection to immigrants. I know LEGAL immigrants who are being exploited ... the potential for problems for ILLEGAL immigrants is huge. They're very vulnerable, and people are more than willing to take advantage of that vulnerability.
[right][snapback]935266[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]More than willing is an understatement. It's a well established industry. And Unions aren't the solution. Unions are too succeptible to Animal Farm hi-jinks. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss, but this time his cut is called Union Dues. Heck, you'd have to convince the average Mexican worker to work at half speed in order to not make other Union employees look bad.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='jasJis' date='Apr 4 2006, 12:44 PM']More than willing is an understatement.  It's a well established industry.  And Unions aren't the solution.  Unions are too succeptible to Animal Farm hi-jinks.  Meet the new boss, same as the old boss, but this time his cut is called Union Dues.  Heck, you'd have to convince the average Mexican worker to work at half speed in order to not make other Union employees look bad.
[right][snapback]935273[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
And it's not just employment. Immigrants get totally shafted in the area of housing and car purchases and so on. It really makes me sick to see the way people take advantage of others -- with no real risk of punishment because the immigrant is too frightened to get help.

And then there's cops who treat anyone who looks Hispanic as though they're stupid ... an immigrant friend of mine (legal) was recently rear-ended by a drunk teenager. She wanted a police report; the kid called a friend of his who's a cop and the friend tried to convince her she didn't need a report. She's got a crying daughter in the car, her leg hurts from an injury sustained in the accident, and the cop gave her carp about getting a report. And she's legal.

Then there's women who marry American men who turn out to be abusive. The husbands hold their wives' immigration status over their heads. These women have no recourse ... they leave, and they're in danger of deportation. One woman a friend of mine represented was in just this situation and could not get custody of her kids because she was undocumented and her husband had not allowed her to get her papers in order.

If you want to talk overrarching principles, let's start with "Love your neighbor as yourself." Our laws now don't create a system that protects the people it needs to protect.