Notre Dame will allow "Vagina Monologues"

[Sojourner]

[url="http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060405/LOCAL/604050497"]AP article here[/url]
[quote]SOUTH BEND, Ind. -- The University of Notre Dame will allow "The Vagina Monologues" and a gay film festival to continue on campus, the school's president said today.
  
The Rev. John I. Jenkins 10 weeks ago questioned whether the two events belonged on the campus of a Roman Catholic university.
Since then, he said he has heard comments from both sides. Many who opposed the events said they went against the school's "Catholic character."

"To them, we must say, with all respect: 'This is a Catholic university,"' Jenkins said in a statement. "We are committed to a wide-open, unconstrained search for truth, and we are convinced that Catholic teaching has nothing to fear from engaging the wider culture."

But he said such events must be accompanied by Catholic teaching.
"The challenge is not to do just one of these -- or even to do both of them in parallel -- but to promote academic freedom and affirm our Catholic character in a way that integrates the two and elevates both," he said.

As a result of the debate, students who supported "The Vagina Monologues" have proposed to produce a play, describing their own experiences, titled "Loyal Daughters," he said.[/quote]

I love that he says "Catholic teaching has nothing to fear from engaging the wider culture." That's so refreshing!

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

I'm still thinking this is the VM's last year at ND. From what I read earlier, this year's will be limited and is only happening because they had already planned it before it came on the agenda.

[Didacus]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Apr 5 2006, 12:46 PM'][url="http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060405/LOCAL/604050497"]AP article here[/url]
I love that he says "Catholic teaching has nothing to fear from engaging the wider culture." That's so refreshing!
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That is precisely the quote that I noticed as well.

I will never cease to be amazed at how the devil can lie so well by telling the truth.

Of course we have nothing to fear; the Church is Holy and the forces of hell shall never win before Her doors.

However, does the fact that we have nothing to fear relieve us of our moral obligations?

[Theoketos]

*warning graphic*



Just because one does not fear the truth does not mean that they have to listen to some one condone the rape of a minor, as the VM does.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Apr 5 2006, 02:46 PM'][url="http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060405/LOCAL/604050497"]AP article here[/url]
I love that he says "Catholic teaching has nothing to fear from engaging the wider culture." That's so refreshing!
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Engaging it is one thing...condoning it or allowing it to take place in our institutions is another.

May God help Notre Dame.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Apr 5 2006, 12:46 PM'][url="http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060405/LOCAL/604050497"]AP article here[/url]
I love that he says "Catholic teaching has nothing to fear from engaging the wider culture." That's so refreshing!
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I can only hope that you're being sarcastic here!

Are you seriously saying that you think "engaging the wider culture" means that Catholic institutions must host such smut??

[JudgedByGod]

Even if I was a crazy feminist (which I'm completely the opposite of), I would still be grossed out by this show. Seriously, who would even enjoy this stuff? Especially at a "Catholic" school.

[crazymaine catholic]

[styx chyx]

Hey guys, you're probably all going to be shocked and horrified at me for this, but I'm about to openly display my ignorance anyway!!!

I haven't heard much about the Vagina Monologues, they're not really big over here, but the few things I've read about it on the internet make it seem like it's solely about the liberation of women. What's so offensive about it? Surely phatmass is not opposed to equal rights???

Please help me out here guys, I'm confused!!!

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='styx chyx' date='Apr 5 2006, 09:27 PM']Hey guys, you're probably all going to be shocked and horrified at me for this, but I'm about to openly display my ignorance anyway!!! 

I haven't heard much about the Vagina Monologues, they're not really big over here, but the few things I've read about it on the internet make it seem like it's solely about the liberation of women.  What's so offensive about it?  Surely phatmass is not opposed to equal rights???

Please help me out here guys, I'm confused!!!
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If women are liberated by graphic depictions of sex, violence and their vaginas, then I say let them stay in the kitchen. Cripes.

Read up on it. It's a tasteless play that cheapens the true nature of sex and personhood.

[JudgedByGod]

[quote name='styx chyx' date='Apr 5 2006, 09:27 PM']Hey guys, you're probably all going to be shocked and horrified at me for this, but I'm about to openly display my ignorance anyway!!! 

I haven't heard much about the Vagina Monologues, they're not really big over here, but the few things I've read about it on the internet make it seem like it's solely about the liberation of women.  What's so offensive about it?  Surely phatmass is not opposed to equal rights???

Please help me out here guys, I'm confused!!!
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It's like tolede-jesus said, "It's a tasteless play that cheapens the true nature of sex and personhood." Sadly, I have to admit that I have read it (it's a long story of how it got into my possession, but that isn't relevent) and I was absolutely disgusted. I won't go into details on this in a public forum, but trust me when I say that the entire thing is offensive. If people feel such a huge need to liberate women, I can think of much better plays that could be written than merely talking about their vaginas. As a women, I do not want to be thought of this way. It isn't liberating, it's insulting.

[shortnun]

I lived in South Bend for the past four years. I heard the debates from the time they started in December and January, until April and beyond. I read [u]numerous[/u] letters to the editor in the student newspaper. Not only that, but I heard the arguements TWICE.... I went to the school on the other (better ) side of the street. I went to an all women's college where we had to balance being a Catholic college and a women's college. Then we heard the uproar from across the street, from a nationally known Catholic university about if the play should or should not take place, and under what sort of official endorsement.

I support Fr. Jenkin's decision to allow the play to continue by placing it's content firmly within a Catholic context. Furthermore, I applaud his efforts to balance academic freedom and academic responsibility. The real world is not something from which we need to run away and hide. It's not. Neither is it something which we immerse ourselves in totally, and foresake our faith. The sponsorship of this performance does not mean endorsement. Rather, it is an endorsement of Catholic teaching to dialogue within this specific context.

[b][url="http://www.ndsmcobserver.com/media/storage/paper660/news/2006/04/05/News/Breaking.News.Jenkins.Delivers.Guidelines.To.Balance.Academic.Freedom.Catholic.C-1783998.shtml?norewrite200604061109&sourcedomain=www.ndsmcobserver.com"]Yesterday's Breaking News article from ND student newspaper[/url][/b]
[b]
[url="http://media.www.ndsmcobserver.com/media/storage/paper660/news/2006/04/06/News/Many-Students.Say.Jenkins.Efforts.Were.Laudable-1798886.shtml?sourcedomain=www.ndsmcobserver.com&MIIHost=media.collegepublisher.com"]Today's Student response to Fr. Jenkins' decision[/url][/b]

[b][url="http://www.ndsmcobserver.com/media/storage/paper660/news/2006/04/06/News/Jenkins.Decision.Prompts.Campus.Approval-1798883.shtml?norewrite200604061119&sourcedomain=www.ndsmcobserver.com"]Today's Faculty response to Fr. Jenkins' decision[/url][/b]
[b]
[url="http://media.www.ndsmcobserver.com/media/storage/paper660/news/2006/04/06/Viewpoint/Uncovering.A.Cause-1798836.shtml?sourcedomain=www.ndsmcobserver.com&MIIHost=media.collegepublisher.com"]Excellent letter to the editor[/url][/b]
[b]
[url="http://www.ndsmcobserver.com/media/storage/paper660/news/2006/04/06/Viewpoint/Pandoras.Box-1797650.shtml?norewrite200604061121&sourcedomain=www.ndsmcobserver.com"](Letter the the editor on how academic freedom and the war in Iraq are connected)[/url][/b]

[Sojourner]

[quote name='shortnun' date='Apr 6 2006, 10:21 AM']I lived in South Bend for the past four years. I heard the debates from the time they started in December and January, until April and beyond.  I read [u]numerous[/u] letters to the editor in the student newspaper. Not only that, but I heard the arguements TWICE.... I went to the school on the other (better  ) side of the street. I went to an all women's college where we had to balance being a Catholic college and a women's college. Then we heard the uproar from across the street, from a nationally known Catholic university about if the play should or should not take place, and under what sort of official endorsement.

[b]I support Fr. Jenkin's decision to allow the play to continue by placing it's content firmly within a Catholic context. Furthermore, I applaud his efforts to balance academic freedom and academic responsibility. The real world is not something from which we need to run away and hide. It's not. Neither is it something which we immerse ourselves in totally, and foresake our faith. The sponsorship of this performance does not mean endorsement. Rather, it is an endorsement of Catholic teaching to dialogue within this specific context.[/b]

[b][url="http://www.ndsmcobserver.com/media/storage/paper660/news/2006/04/05/News/Breaking.News.Jenkins.Delivers.Guidelines.To.Balance.Academic.Freedom.Catholic.C-1783998.shtml?norewrite200604061109&sourcedomain=www.ndsmcobserver.com"]Yesterday's Breaking News article from ND student newspaper[/url][/b]
[b]
[url="http://media.www.ndsmcobserver.com/media/storage/paper660/news/2006/04/06/News/Many-Students.Say.Jenkins.Efforts.Were.Laudable-1798886.shtml?sourcedomain=www.ndsmcobserver.com&MIIHost=media.collegepublisher.com"]Today's Student response to Fr. Jenkins' decision[/url][/b]

[b][url="http://www.ndsmcobserver.com/media/storage/paper660/news/2006/04/06/News/Jenkins.Decision.Prompts.Campus.Approval-1798883.shtml?norewrite200604061119&sourcedomain=www.ndsmcobserver.com"]Today's Faculty response to Fr. Jenkins' decision[/url][/b]
[b]
[url="http://media.www.ndsmcobserver.com/media/storage/paper660/news/2006/04/06/Viewpoint/Uncovering.A.Cause-1798836.shtml?sourcedomain=www.ndsmcobserver.com&MIIHost=media.collegepublisher.com"]Excellent letter to the editor[/url][/b]
[b]
[url="http://www.ndsmcobserver.com/media/storage/paper660/news/2006/04/06/Viewpoint/Pandoras.Box-1797650.shtml?norewrite200604061121&sourcedomain=www.ndsmcobserver.com"](Letter the the editor on how academic freedom and the war in Iraq are connected)[/url][/b]
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Thank you for your comments, and I wholeheartedly second the bolded section. I wasn't intending to be sarcastic in my introductory comment in part because of the larger picture of allowing the play to be produced within the context of a fuller discussion.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

No matter what you think of the story (and this is just a brief report on something that has been going on over there for quite some time), I really think Fr. Jenkins is going to be a change for the better around ND. Unfortunately he has to deal with the liberalism that has infiltrated higher education around the country.

[JudgedByGod]

[quote name='shortnun' date='Apr 6 2006, 10:21 AM']I support Fr. Jenkin's decision to allow the play to continue by placing it's content firmly within a Catholic context. Furthermore, I applaud his efforts to balance academic freedom and academic responsibility. The real world is not something from which we need to run away and hide. It's not. Neither is it something which we immerse ourselves in totally, and foresake our faith. The sponsorship of this performance does not mean endorsement. Rather, it is an endorsement of Catholic teaching to dialogue within this specific context.
[/quote]
How exactly can "The Vagina Monologues" be put into a Catholic context? As far as your statement about running away from the "real world," why does this play have to define the "real world?" The real world shouldn't be about masturbation, discussing vaginas, and fornication. These are works of the devil. No matter how you try to rationalize it, there are no Catholic teachings anywhere in this book. For a "Catholic" school to ok this kind of behavior, they aren't only doing a disservice to their reputation, but they surely aren't leading their students towards God.

[Socrates]

[quote name='shortnun' date='Apr 6 2006, 08:21 AM']II support Fr. Jenkin's decision to allow the play to continue by placing it's content firmly within a Catholic context. Furthermore, I applaud his efforts to balance academic freedom and academic responsibility. The real world is not something from which we need to run away and hide. It's not. Neither is it something which we immerse ourselves in totally, and foresake our faith. The sponsorship of this performance does not mean endorsement. Rather, it is an endorsement of Catholic teaching to dialogue within this specific context.
[/quote]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Apr 6 2006, 08:34 AM']Thank you for your comments, and I wholeheartedly second the bolded section. I wasn't intending to be sarcastic in my introductory comment in part because of the larger picture of allowing the play to be produced within the context of a fuller discussion.
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Sometimes I just can't believe what people post on these boards!

It seems by the logic used here that it would be a good thing for Catholic schools to host the showing of hard-core porno films (all in the context of fuller discussion, of course), or for Catholic parishes to invite strippers to perform in the parish hall (not to endorse it, of course). And while we're at it, let's put copies of [i]Hustler [/i]magazine in the rack alongside the diocesine newsletter in the back of the church! (all in the name of "Catholic teaching to dialogue" of course)
I'm sure the liberals here would find such things quite "refreshing"!
I mean, after all, such things are part of the "wider culture" out there in the "real world," and the Catholic Faith has nothing to fear from them! Catholics don't need to "run away and hide" from such stuff!

Such nonsense is hardly "refreshing," but has been going on in secularized "Catholic" universities across the country for 40 years now, all in the name of "academic freedom" and "dialogue."
With what results? With a body of Catholic graduates better able to engage and evangelize the "wider culture"?
The facts speak otherwise. These universities have in reality lost much of their Catholic identity. Students learn all kinds of trendy Lefty ideologies and fads, but are clueless about Catholic doctrine. Studies show a majority of graduates of "mainstream" "Catholic" universities lose the Faith by the time they graduate.

I was fortunate enough to attend a small, solidly orthodox Catholic college that was founded as an antidote for this kind of garbage. No such offensive plays or movies were shown there. Yeah, I know you'll go on about that being "stifling," "sheltered," blah, blah, blah. However, overall, graduates of genuinely Catholic schools such as Christendom, FUS, etc. have a much better record of keeping and defending the Faith, even in hostile environments, than those of the mainstream "Catholic" universities.

College-aged people are still learning and forming their core beliefs. Catholic universities should teach them the Truth, not be wasting their time with carp like "The Vagina Monologues" and Gay Film Festivals.

There is absolutely no reason for Catholic schools to host obscene and offensive garbage in order to prepare students for "the real world." One does not have to witness degrading obscenity to know it is wrong. Besides, most students have plenty of opportunity to watch smut or engage in immorality on their own time, if they so choose, anyway.

Perhaps you could try explaining what advantages Catholic students who see "The Vagina Monologues" and watch homosexual porn have over those who don't? How does listending to women talk crudely about their body parts and lesbian rape, or watching sodomy on screen, advance the intellectual, spiritual, or educational growth of young Catholics?

The fact that Catholics are announcing this on phatmass like it's good news is profoundly disturbing, to say the least.

C'mon, people! Wake up! Start thinking like Catholics instead of like liberals for a change!

[Era Might]

Edited April 7, 2006 by Era Might

[shortnun]

[quote name='JudgedByGod' date='Apr 6 2006, 04:18 PM']How exactly can "The Vagina Monologues" be put into a Catholic context? As far as your statement about running away from the "real world," why does this play have to define the "real world?" The real world shouldn't be about masturbation, discussing vaginas, and fornication. These are works of the devil. No matter how you try to rationalize it, there are no Catholic teachings anywhere in this book. For a "Catholic" school to ok this kind of behavior, they aren't only doing a disservice to their reputation, but they surely aren't leading their students towards God.
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You're very correct. The real world should not be about masturbation, rape, and fornication. The school is not condoning masturbation, rape, or fornication by permitting it to be performed there! Imagine if there are students on campus caught up in some of those activities. How is anyone going to be able to [i]address [/i]those situations and [i]minister [/i]to those people unless the issues are [u]directly addressed[/u]?

Catholic context means that these issues named above are [i]brought into conversation with[/i] Catholic teachings on such issues. Telling people that X, Y, and Z are wrong is a waste of time if you don't tell them [b]why[/b]! It is the duty of the Church to form the conscience of the people so they can best learn how to appropriate faith and reason in their moral decision making. And again, I am filled with hope by Fr. Jenkins' statements, and pray for a fruitful conversation as a result of these events.

_______________________

Socrates,

Even if they are my own statements, it's nice to see a little mix-up in terms of the responses here on the boards. And, by the by, I'm proud to say that I went to a Catholic college, and that we performed the Vagina Monologues (and later our own personal testamonies in place of them) every year.
[quote]How does listending to women talk crudely about their body parts and lesbian rape, or watching sodomy on screen, advance the intellectual, spiritual, or educational growth of young Catholics?[/quote]
1) Women talking frankly about their bodies parts after decades of being told that words such as vagina were shameful. THEY'RE NOT.
2) Sodomy destroys the human soul. Personal testamony can help us heal those persons in our community through empathy. Same thing goes for rape--it happens, and probably to someone you've known. The healing that must come about after that trauma is a long process and is personal and communal. How are we as the Church responding to those needs?

[Theoketos]

[quote name='shortnun' date='Apr 6 2006, 08:19 PM']
Even if they are my own statements, it's nice to see a little mix-up in terms of the responses here on the boards. And, by the by, I'm proud to say that I went to a Catholic college, and that we performed the Vagina Monologues (and later our own personal testamonies in place of them) every year.

1) Women talking frankly about their bodies parts after decades of being told that words such as vagina were shameful. THEY'RE NOT.

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Indeed there is a need for the true liberation of women. Women, in the right context should be talk about their body parts.

However, woman degrading thier body parts, even for the sake or at least the supposed sake of truth, is not acceptable.

The VM's are crude, do not promote healing, and indeed set feminism back. There is nothing wholesome or liberating about them. They are shameless and admit of being so.



EDIT TO FRUSTRATEDLY ADD

The VM address those issuses, but not in a healthy way. THEY CONDONE THEM, THEY CONDONE SIN. If you want to really minister to people YOU CANNOT CONDONE THIER SIN.

Edited April 7, 2006 by Theoketos

[toledo_jesus]

how many people are going to stick around after the play to listen to why everything in it is wrong? Like 5, that's how many. How do you put it in Catholic context if you don't force people to sit down and learn it?