Do you support the SSPX?

[Cam42]

[quote name='CCC #2095']The theological virtues of faith, hope, and charity inform and give life to the moral virtues. Thus charity leads us to render to God what we as creatures owe him in all justice. The virtue of religion disposes us to have this attitude.[/quote]

They are of the same sinful mentality. If you can't see this, then you need to do some further study.

[qfnol31]

So your opinion in the discussion I was trying to further is that they should be treated the same?

[Cam42]

[quote name='qfnol31' date='Apr 16 2006, 10:39 PM']So your opinion in the discussion I was trying to further is that they should be treated the same?
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Did I say that? No.

[qfnol31]

Ahh, what is your opinion on that? It's where I was trying to go in here since it was brought up and kinda dismissed.

[Cam42]

[quote name='qfnol31' date='Apr 16 2006, 10:45 PM']Ahh, what is your opinion on that?  It's where I was trying to go in here since it was brought up and kinda dismissed.
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I already addressed that.....please listen to what I am saying. Thank you.

[qfnol31]

If you said it earlier, sorry...I didn't read that far.

I was just struck and kinda disturbed by the statement at the top of this page.

Would you please mind showing me where you said what you did? I don't see it in these last few posts...and I may just be overlooking it.

[Cam42]

post #114.

[qfnol31]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Apr 16 2006, 09:05 PM']post #114.
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[quote]That makes it heretical. And heresy is dangerous. It is not a subjective notion. Your question is asking my opinion, I have none. I know what the Church teaches and I assent to that.[/quote]

Danke...so what does the Church say on how they should be treated?

[Cam42]

[quote name='qfnol31' date='Apr 16 2006, 11:07 PM']Danke...so what does the Church say on how they should be treated?
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They are both sins against faith....both are a matter of doctrine. Both hold the same weight. Both are sins against faith.

They should be treated as mortal sins. They both require absolution.

Heresy, being a deadly poison generated within the organism of the Church, must be ejected if she is to live and perform her task of continuing Christ's work of salvation.

Schism, resting on human authority, presented from the beginning, in the face of Catholic unity of faith, an aspect of dreary dissension.

Both speak of unity and a lack thereof. They hold the same weight, unless of course you'd like to show how that is not the case.

[qfnol31]

I guess I should say, how do you think the people in both of those categories be treated by people such as those on the phorum?

[Cam42]

[quote name='qfnol31' date='Apr 17 2006, 01:07 AM']I guess I should say, how do you think the people in both of those categories be treated by people such as those on the phorum?
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They should be treated with human dignity and properly catechized according to the mortal sin in which they are guilty of. However, it is not up to me or anyone else to decide what is a mortal sin, UNLESS it is painfully obvious that one ascribes to and promotes (in this case) heresy or a schismatic attitude.

Now, how about answering my proposition in post #129, Zach.

[qfnol31]

What proposition do you want me to answer?

All I was trying to discuss here is why the supporters of SSPX are treated worse than any Protestants I know. That's all we're discussing right now.

[quote]Both speak of unity and a lack thereof. They hold the same weight, unless of course you'd like to show how that is not the case.[/quote]

I really don't want to because that's not my place, but I do wonder why it is that you think that they are the same...since the Church says it, could you show me where please?

[Cam42]

[quote name='qfnol31' date='Apr 17 2006, 12:13 PM']What proposition do you want me to answer?

All I was trying to discuss here is why the supporters of SSPX are treated worse than any Protestants I know.  That's all we're discussing right now.
I really don't want to because that's not my place, but I do wonder why it is that you think that they are the same...since the Church says it, could you show me where please?
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Dodgy...dodgy....nice non answer....

I will not answer anymore of your questions until you answer the proposition.

[qfnol31]

Cam, what of the proposition do you want me to answer?

I would be lying if I gave an answer because I don't have an opinion between them.

You on the other hand seem to have believe something (even if it is in alignment with the Church, it still counts as what you believe). If you do believe what the Church believes, why not say it so that people like myself without an opinion (not formed because we have not had a good opportunity to learn about it) may learn, rather than force something I don't believe out of me before you are willing to give a response?

[Cam42]

[quote name='qfnol31' date='Apr 17 2006, 12:51 PM']Cam, what of the proposition do you want me to answer?

I would be lying if I gave an answer because I don't have an opinion between them.

You on the other hand seem to have believe something (even if it is in alignment with the Church, it still counts as what you believe).  If you do believe what the Church believes, why not say it so that people like myself without an opinion (not formed because we have not had a good opportunity to learn about it) may learn, rather than force something I don't believe out of me before you are willing to give a response?
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I want you answer it all....I can't have a discussion, by myself. I have answered your questions, please answer my proposition.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='StThomasMore' date='Apr 5 2006, 05:45 PM']I do not support the SSPX, but I was wondering how many Phatmassers did...
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Although I disagree with the methods employed by the SSPX over the last 20 years in defense of the pre-conciliar Roman liturgy, I do support their desire for more reverent worship and for a greater availability of liturgical celebrations according to the norms set forth in the older missal of the Latin Church.

[qfnol31]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='Apr 17 2006, 11:56 AM']Although I disagree with the methods employed by the SSPX over the last 20 years in defense of the pre-conciliar Roman liturgy, I do support their desire for more reverent worship and for a greater availability of liturgical celebrations according to the norms set forth in the older missal of the Latin Church.
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I, too, support a few of their propositions, but I, like you, disagree with how they go about things...I think that they reject too much, but then again, I think the average Catholic does as well...

[Seven77]

humility...

[qfnol31]

[quote name='Seven77' post='952245' date='Apr 18 2006, 12:02 PM']
humility...
[/quote]

Hmmm?

[qfnol31]

I'm surprised by the numbers on here...I was expecting something a little differently myself.

I actually wonder how many people who support SSPX actually go, because that's gotta be even smaller.

My question then is, why? According to SSPX's website no one who supports them can go if:

CAN WE ATTEND THEIR MASSES?
If we have to agree to the doctrinal and juridical value of the Novus Ordo Missae, then NO, for we cannot do evil that good may ensue.
This condition may not be presented explicitly, but by implication, such as:
* By a priest who celebrates the Novus Ordo Missae on other days of the week or at other times,
* using Hosts consecrated at a Novus Ordo Missae,
* or with communion in the hand;
* new lectionaries, Mass facing the people, etc.,
* by a priest who was ordained in the New Rite,
* by sermons that are modernist in inspiration (much to be feared if the celebrant habitually says the Novus Ordo Missae); or
* by offering only the revised forms of the other sacraments, e.g., penance.


Just for future reference, this is the US site and I'm noticing a tendency towards a very isolated philosophy.

Masses in St. Peter's have always faced the people, even post Trent. All of the older churches there before Trent have an isolated altar with baldicchino in the center which faces East (when facing the people). Ergo, the "Mass facing the people" is actually a view limited to post-Vatican II saying that now Masses only face that way because of Vatican II, though it's not true.

Anyways, tangent, but I'm curious how many peole would even be accepted by the SSPX because I don't think there are that many on this site that go to those Masses...