goldenchild17 Posted April 21, 2006 Posted April 21, 2006 [quote name='Cam42' post='950602' date='Apr 17 2006, 10:36 AM'] I want you answer it all....I can't have a discussion, by myself. I have answered your questions, please answer my proposition. [/quote] That's ridiculous. How can you expect someone to answer something they have no opinion on? He already told you he has no opinion on the matter as of yet. So... what do you want him to do? Make up an answer that he doesn't accept, just to please your request?
Apotheoun Posted April 21, 2006 Posted April 21, 2006 [quote name='qfnol31' post='956424' date='Apr 21 2006, 12:23 PM'] I'm surprised by the numbers on here...I was expecting something a little differently myself. I actually wonder how many people who support SSPX actually go, because that's gotta be even smaller. [/quote] I don't go to SSPX chapels -- I would miss the liturgy of St. John Chrysostom too much to do that -- but I do support their desire to celebrate Mass using the older missal.
YMNolan Posted April 21, 2006 Posted April 21, 2006 [quote name='Era Might' post='937601' date='Apr 6 2006, 09:57 AM'] The SSPX is whack. [/quote] wiggidy whack?
Apotheoun Posted April 21, 2006 Posted April 21, 2006 [quote name='qfnol31' post='956424' date='Apr 21 2006, 12:23 PM'] Masses in St. Peter's have always faced the people, even post Trent. All of the older churches there before Trent have an isolated altar with baldicchino in the center which faces East (when facing the people). Ergo, the "Mass facing the people" is actually a view limited to post-Vatican II saying that now Masses only face that way because of Vatican II, though it's not true. [/quote] You have brought up an important point, because as Fr. Louis Bouyer explained in his book [u]Natural Sacredness and Christian Liturgy[/u], in the Churches where the priest -- in order to face East -- had to stand behind the altar facing the people, once the prayers of the Mass began the people turned around and faced East with the priest. Thus, there was never a time during the first millennium when the priest and the people faced each other during the prayers of the liturgy. Moreover, the modern Roman practice of having the priest face the people during the Eucharistic sacrifice is seen by the Eastern Orthodox Churches as an innovation that brings about a new obstacle to the restoration of communion between the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Churches.
qfnol31 Posted April 21, 2006 Posted April 21, 2006 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='956500' date='Apr 21 2006, 04:04 PM'] I don't go to SSPX chapels -- I would miss the liturgy of St. John Chrysostom too much to do that -- but I do support their desire to celebrate Mass using the older missal. [/quote] Were you one who voted yes by any chance? I'm just curious...I put no, though I do agree with some of their aims.
Defender_of_the_Faith Posted April 22, 2006 Posted April 22, 2006 While I am empathetic towards their cause, they're definately going about it the wrong way by breaking away. We coulde really use more traditionalists within the church : .
qfnol31 Posted April 22, 2006 Posted April 22, 2006 [quote name='Defender_of_the_Faith' post='956880' date='Apr 22 2006, 12:07 AM'] While I am empathetic towards their cause, they're definately going about it the wrong way by breaking away. We coulde really use more traditionalists within the church : . [/quote] I think you and I agree.
Ora et Labora Posted April 24, 2006 Posted April 24, 2006 ditto!! and i dont have to disguise myself... people on here already know my thoughts.
Peccator Posted April 24, 2006 Posted April 24, 2006 I'm going to be blunt....Up to date, I've yet to see any kind of positive contrabution from them toward reform within the Church. Though they seem very keen to critisise from the sidelines... (like my dad always says: the best referees are always in the crowd.) Like Luther before them - the chose to break away rather than stay and change the church from the inside.
Semperviva Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 no. i dont see how any catholic could support this new protestantism. try to understand where they are coming from yes- i support them in that way.
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 [quote name='Semperviva' post='997734' date='Jun 5 2006, 06:47 PM'] no. i dont see how any catholic could support this new protestantism. try to understand where they are coming from yes- i support them in that way. [/quote] Protestants are heretics. we are not. justify your claim.
goldenchild17 Posted June 6, 2006 Posted June 6, 2006 [quote name='qfnol31' post='951092' date='Apr 17 2006, 02:16 PM'] I, too, support a few of their propositions, but I, like you, disagree with how they go about things...I think that they reject too much, but then again, I think the average Catholic does as well... [/quote] I support what they do. They are a great order. But I don't think they take their arguments to the logical conclusion(ie. don't go far enough).
Socrates Posted June 6, 2006 Posted June 6, 2006 [quote name='goldenchild17' post='997758' date='Jun 5 2006, 05:07 PM'] I support what they do. They are a great order. But I don't think they take their arguments to the logical conclusion(ie. don't go far enough). [/quote] Rejecting the Barq of St. Peter is never a wise or logical conclusion.
goldenchild17 Posted June 6, 2006 Posted June 6, 2006 No it's not. Which is why I would never support such an idea .
Socrates Posted June 6, 2006 Posted June 6, 2006 [quote name='goldenchild17' post='997773' date='Jun 5 2006, 05:19 PM'] No it's not. Which is why I would never support such an idea . [/quote] Well, it's good to know that you've finally returned to being loyal to the Pope, then.
dUSt Posted June 6, 2006 Posted June 6, 2006 Catholic vs Catholic debate is not allowed on phatmass. Closed.
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