Do you believe in Infant's Limbo?

[goldenchild17]

I never said it was. And since it isn't I am free to theorize about why people don't like it nowadays. I think that is one(read: one) likely cause of it.

[dspen2005]

the problem w/ the limbo issue is that Divine Revelation gives to us only 2 permanent places after death -- Heaven and Hell. Limbo isn't there....

[Resurrexi]

[quote]The Church also held the tradition of Father's Limbo where it is believed the patriarchs of the old testament remained till Christ's brought them out of prison on Holy Saturday.

If anyone knows if these two are thought to be related in tradition please explain.[/quote]

I think you are using the wrong verb ending... each verb should end in "s" as in "The Church also holds the tradition of Father's Limbo where it is believed the patriarchs of the OT remained till Churst brought them out..."

oh, and by the way, He didnt bring them out till Easter Sunday morning. He stayed with them on Good Friday Evening and for the whole day on Holy Saturday.

[quote]the problem w/ the limbo issue is that Divine Revelation gives to us only 2 permanent places after death -- Heaven and Hell. Limbo isn't there....[/quote]

Limbo is part of hell.

[dspen2005]

but i thought that limbo was the outer ring of heaven....

[Resurrexi]

no. The Apostles Creed says "He decended into Hell" which in Latin is "descendit ad inferos" and I don't think "inferos" can be translated as "the dead" as it is in some modern translastions of the Apostles Creed. That being said, it is dogmatically defined that Limbo is part of the large realm of hell.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='dspen2005' date='Apr 11 2006, 04:48 PM']the problem w/ the limbo issue is that Divine Revelation gives to us only 2 permanent places after death -- Heaven and Hell.  Limbo isn't there....
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If I am not mistaken, a number of reputable theologians have entertained the idea of a limbo. If it isn't allowable, then why would they consider it?

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='StThomasMore' date='Apr 11 2006, 07:07 PM']That being said, it is dogmatically defined that Limbo is part of the large realm of hell.
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[/quote]
Could you give the reference for this? I had thought as much, but could not remember where I saw it.

[rufiokicks]

[quote name='goldenchild17' date='Apr 11 2006, 11:01 PM']If I am not mistaken, a number of reputable theologians have entertained the idea of a limbo.  If it isn't allowable, then why would they consider it?
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[/quote]

It's not that the idea of Limbo isn't allowed, it just isn't doctrine either. The Church has no official stance on it. Limbo is considered a part of Hell, not Heaven, because it is without God. A big part of the belief though is that there's no "punishment", but it's still eternity without God. In Heaven we are in full communion with Him, but if you follow the theory of Limbo, the common belief is that because these "virtuous pagans" and unbaptized children did not have God, they could never be able to spend eternity with Him. As for the Harrowing of Hell that was referenced earlier, God didn't take everyone, only a select few.

[popestpiusx]

I most definately believe in Limbo.

[Christie_M]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Apr 10 2006, 04:46 PM']The idea of Limbo makes sense to me, and I'd tend to believe in it, but it's not something I can say with absolute certainity, as the Church has not made a definitive statement on this issue.

So I voted "maybe."
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[/quote]
same here.

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='goldenchild17' date='Apr 12 2006, 12:01 AM']If I am not mistaken, a number of reputable theologians have entertained the idea of a limbo.  If it isn't allowable, then why would they consider it?
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Yes. Reputable theologians like St. Thomas Aquinas.

[Peccator]

[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Apr 13 2006, 06:19 AM']Yes.  Reputable theologians like St. Thomas Aquinas.
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[/quote]That still does not prove it exists...its still just an open question.

[prose]

I have thought this through a few times, and I would think that the baptism of desire would apply to infants that never had the opportunity to be baptized.

[quote][62] Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.  -CCC 1260[/quote]

I think that an infant would meet these requirements.

[dspen2005]

[quote name='goldenchild17' date='Apr 12 2006, 12:01 AM']If I am not mistaken, a number of reputable theologians have entertained the idea of a limbo.  If it isn't allowable, then why would they consider it?
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i don't care what "reputable theologians have entertained"... I am only concerned with the official dogmatic and doctrinal teaching of the Church, which not one person who believes in Limbo has given

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='dspen2005' date='Apr 15 2006, 04:35 AM']i don't care what "reputable theologians have entertained"... I am only concerned with the official dogmatic and doctrinal teaching of the Church, which not one person who believes in Limbo has given
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[/quote]

Because I'm not sure it has been officially defined. However, as you seem to ignore, this does not negate the fact that it is still a possible reality. The Church has not said Limbo does NOT exist, and therefore leaves it up to the imagination that it can exist. Therefore I CHOOSE to believe in it, along with many other great minds of Catholicism that you don't seem to care about...

[qfnol31]

[quote name='StThomasMore' date='Apr 9 2006, 04:31 PM']Limbo is more traditional  :
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Only for an "Old Catholic" who would think SSPX heretical and liberal.

Baltimore Catechism denies it.

[Peccator]

[quote name='prose' date='Apr 15 2006, 07:21 AM']I have thought this through a few times, and I would think that the baptism of desire would apply to infants that never had the opportunity to be baptized.
I think that an infant would meet these requirements.
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[/quote]

Indeed! I must say this was a question that initially kept me from becoming Christian, as allot of protestants believe the babies can't be saved(or don't have souls as I've heard some say) ...and to someone like me that appeared mighty unjust.

The Catholic Church was probably the only one that actually kept these questions in serious thought, and made provision to believe that these can be saved.

[dspen2005]

[quote name='goldenchild17' date='Apr 16 2006, 01:09 AM']Because I'm not sure it has been officially defined.  However, as you seem to ignore, this does not negate the fact that it is still a possible reality.  The Church has not said Limbo does NOT exist, and therefore leaves it up to the imagination that it can exist.  Therefore I CHOOSE to believe in it, along with many other great minds of Catholicism that you don't seem to care about...
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[/quote]

but the real question is, can the Church say that there is a permanent place as Limbo... NO! there are only two permanent places given to us from Divine revelation, Heaven and Hell (now, I don't see Limbo, there)

[MichaelFilo]

The only defense of limbo, I must say, is the tradition of the Fathers. Otherwise, you have nothing, but there is hardly any question as to where unregenerate babies don't go.. that is heaven. While baptism of desire and blood are certainly extraordinary means of baptism, it is hardly plausible (in fact less plausible then limbo in my opinion) to think that all babies who are unregenerate are saved by the baptism of desire, because then, not only do we negate the real effects of sin, befuddle exactly what a baptism of desire is, but we also make it an ordinary means of salavation; something which it is not.

God bless,
Mikey

[MichaelFilo]

[quote name='uruviel' date='Apr 10 2006, 06:51 PM']well now God brings good out of EVERYTHING.  As Mother Angelica once said, about the aborted babies, that the good He brings out of it is just after death they get to see His holy face, they were not guilty of a sin, and only had few weeks of life, they had a privlege, an amazing privlage.  to see the holy face directly after death is a wish many have and don't gain. 
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So, where did the original sin go?!?

If you don't entertain the idea that babies may have some hope in limbo, then to hell with them.. and here I thoguht people had a heart. Of course, if you believe that they enter into heaven (truncing the effect of original sin on all humanity) then i suppose your a heretic (not you specifically, of course). Unless of course, the great councils of the past mean nothing to modern theology..

God bless,
Mikey

Edited April 19, 2006 by MichaelFilo