stopping abortions

[Socrates]

[quote name='MichaelFilo' post='954254' date='Apr 19 2006, 02:56 PM']
Lol... babies go to heaven; where is thy sting now, original sin?

. . . .

Anyone who thinks babies are going to heaven is not only a heretic, but they openly teach false doctrine to the Faithful. This is a most troublesome thing.
[/quote]


[quote name='MichaelFilo' post='954415' date='Apr 19 2006, 06:01 PM']
She will say the same thing again and again, the real crime of abortion isn't that the children are removed from this world, it is that they are barred from the Beatfic Vision of the next. [/quote]
The Church has made no declaration concerning the eternal destiny of the souls of aborted babies, so let us not be so quick to throw around the word "heretic" here.
A number of saintly Catholics (I believe Mother Teresa was among them) have expressed the opinion that the souls of the aborted may go to heaven by a kind of baptism of blood, similar to the Holy Innocents. I personally am dubious of this theory, but it is not my place to condemn those who hold it as heretics. The Church has thus far made no dogmatic pronouncements concerning the eternal reward of the aborted. At this point, all people can do is speculate.

The truth is that weather or not aborted babies go to heaven has [b]absolutely no bearing whatsoever [/b] on the evil of the act of abortion! Murdering an innocent human being is a horrible crime regardless of whether the victim goes to heaven or hell. If we take the logic that abortion is evil mainly because it supposedly bars entrance into heaven, then it would be acceptable to murder, so long as the victim is saintly. After all, by murdering them, we would be aiding their entrance into Eternal Life.

[MichaelFilo]

What do you mean killing heretics left and right? Do you know why She stopped? Whats the use of killing heretics if they are 10% of your population? You'll have to murder far too many. If instead, it is a small heresy (there were plenty from the churches inception, to this very day) then it would make sense. And since the church never actually carried out the killing (not that she objected, since she indeed had a power to put an end to it), She certainly did not put a stop to it, it was that it was no longer feasable. Also note, that the point was not to kill the heretic, it was to save others from the heresy, and to allow them a serious chance at conversion.

At any rate, the Church has as of yet to condemn the death penalty, and She will never do so, because it is a legal right granted to the governments whose authority comes forth from God. It is always applicable in defese of the many (and since today it is not so neccessary to kill them to defend the many, it makes sense that it's use ought to be limited, but that the morality behind has yet to change). A very simple example: we are not to eat meat sacraficed to idols because it is disturbing to our brothers who have had attachment those idols, not because it is immoral, it has never been called wrong by the Church, but simply because all things are lawful does not mean they are good (according to St. Paul). The morality behind removing a heretic from society so that no one else loses their eternal salvation is still there, but it is no longer good to do it as that is far too much of society to put away, other means must be used (although former means do not become immoral).

And I'd say the destination of the souls of the unborn has alot of bearing on this, because if they simply enter the Pearly Gates, then the effects of the sin become less severe than when we realize that they are unregenerate, and that through baptism is salvation. I'd say when it dawns on you what exactly is the full extent of the sin of murdering the unborn before they have a chance to be baptized is.. it becoems that much more wrong and disturbing. Of coruse, this isn't the sole critereon.. the murder of someone who is innoecent is the issue that is most bothersome, and we are indeed our brother's keepers. I would therefore be a proponent of non-lethal force (Did Jesus have to kill anyone at the temple, I do not think so... but did He use force, oh yes indeed).

God bless,
Mikey