For those who label themselves "Trads"

[missionseeker]

From the Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Motu Proprio

[quote]Through the intercession of Mary Most Holy, Mother of Christ and Mother of the Church, may everyone who reads this authoritative text recognize and embrace ever more fully the inexhaustable beauty, uniqueness and significance of the incomparable Gift which God has made to the human race in His only Son, Jesus Christ, the "Way, the Truth, and the Life" [/quote]
Pope Benedict XVI

My question is do you accept this statement (Mainly, the word "authoritative"?

[goldenchild17]

If your asking do I believe I can go to Mary to learn more about Christ then absolutely.

If you are asking whether that word signifies that the new catechism is infallible then I don't know. I don't know whether it is to be considered infallible or not. I hope not. But I don't know the answer to that.

[Cam42]

[quote name='missionseeker' date='Apr 12 2006, 12:54 AM']From the Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Motu Proprio
Pope Benedict XVI

My question is do you accept this statement (Mainly, the word "authoritative"?
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Yep, the Catechism is authoriative. It is an extension of Vatican Council II, as laid out in the declaration of the Catechism. The Catechism holds the same weight as the 1983 CIC. I spoke to this before, so I would implore you to do a search and see what I have had to say on this issue.

[Resurrexi]

Would you say the Catechism of Trent is infallable since it's an extention of Trent?

[Cam42]

[quote name='StThomasMore' date='Apr 12 2006, 05:11 PM']Would you say the Catechism of Trent is infallable since it's an extention of Trent?
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I would say that it is authoritative because it is an extention of the Council of Trent. However, there have been doctrinal development and dogmatic development since the Council of Trent. I believe that the Catechism of the Catholic Church is more authoritative, because it is more up to date and more current with accepted Church teaching.

[missionseeker]

[quote name='goldenchild17' date='Apr 11 2006, 11:58 PM']If your asking do I believe I can go to Mary to learn more about Christ then absolutely.

If you are asking whether that word signifies that the new catechism is infallible then I don't know.  I don't know whether it is to be considered infallible or not.  I hope not.  But I don't know the answer to that.
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Sorry. I wasn't that clear.

I want to know if the people who call themselves "Trads" (SSPXers) accept that tthe Compendium is authoritative. I'm asking because from what they've written here, they don't accept the Catechism as authoritative. BUT they say that they accept Pope Benedict as pope and he's the one who wrote that.


Cam, [i]I[/i] know the CCCC is authoritative and all. I just want to find out how SSPXers reconcile the two statements.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='missionseeker' date='Apr 12 2006, 07:51 PM']Sorry. I wasn't that clear.

I want to know if the people who call themselves "Trads" (SSPXers) accept that tthe Compendium is authoritative. I'm asking because from what they've written here, they don't accept the Catechism as authoritative. BUT they say that they accept Pope Benedict as pope and he's the one who wrote that.
Cam, [i]I[/i] know the CCCC is authoritative and all. I just want to find out how SSPXers reconcile the two statements.
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Oh okay I see now. I do see inconsistency in the views of the SSPX. As you say, if they consider the CCC to be heretical then they shouldn't accept the Pope either. I don't consider the CCC to be authoritative and believe it has some heretical issues(maybe) and thus am not sure I accept the Pope as Pope right now. That would be my answer to the question, though I'm not SSPX.

[missionseeker]

[quote name='goldenchild17' date='Apr 12 2006, 11:51 PM']Oh okay I see now.  I do see inconsistency in the views of the SSPX.  As you say, if they consider the CCC to be heretical then they shouldn't accept the Pope either.  I don't consider the CCC to be authoritative and believe it has some heretical issues(maybe) and thus am not sure I accept the Pope as Pope right now.  That would be my answer to the question, though I'm not SSPX.
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Sorry. Is that your answer or are saying that if thought one or the other you would say that?

I think it's correct to say that it is not in itself considered infallible, but a compilation of all the teachings of the Church. And THOSE are infalible.

If I am wrong, someone tell me.

[ardillacid]

Just remember missionseeker, GoldenChild is a sede and does not rep the Church

[qfnol31]

There are some not infallible truths in the Catechism. As long as they are of faith and morals we must obey them.

There are some non-teachings too that don't have much to do with faith or morals (though very, very rare).

[ardillacid]

[quote name='qfnol31' date='Apr 16 2006, 11:08 PM']There are some [b]not infallible truths[/b] in the Catechism.
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Truth is always infallible

[qfnol31]

Yes, I realize that.

Anyways, I guess I should have said there are some not infallible teachings. They may or may not be truths.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='missionseeker' date='Apr 16 2006, 08:42 PM']Sorry. Is that your answer or are saying that if thought one or the other you would say that?[right][snapback]950084[/snapback][/right]
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At this point, that is how I see things.

[dspen2005]

[quote name='goldenchild17' date='Apr 11 2006, 11:58 PM']If your asking do I believe I can go to Mary to learn more about Christ then absolutely.

If you are asking whether that word signifies that the new catechism is infallible then I don't know.  I don't know whether it is to be considered infallible or not.  I hope not.  But I don't know the answer to that.
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what's wrong w/ the Catechism?

[dspen2005]

[quote name='goldenchild17' date='Apr 12 2006, 11:51 PM']Oh okay I see now.  I do see inconsistency in the views of the SSPX.  As you say, if they consider the CCC to be heretical then they shouldn't accept the Pope either.  I don't consider the CCC to be authoritative and believe it has some heretical issues(maybe) and thus am not sure I accept the Pope as Pope right now.  That would be my answer to the question, though I'm not SSPX.
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if you aren't sure that the Pope is Pope, then I suggest that the 'Church Militant' designation be removed

[Cam42]

[quote name='qfnol31' date='Apr 17 2006, 01:08 AM']There are some not infallible truths in the Catechism.  As long as they are of faith and morals we must obey them. 

There are some non-teachings too that don't have much to do with faith or morals (though very, very rare).
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Please stop. You are muddying the waters. That is an incorrect statement and it leads one to believe that we don't have to hold the whole of the Catechism as authoritative.

Care to show me a fallible truth, Zach?

[Cam42]

[quote name='dspen2005' date='Apr 17 2006, 07:10 AM']what's wrong w/ the Catechism?
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Nothing, it is an organic extension of the Magisterium, envisioned in Vatican Council II. It is just as binding on the faithful as the Code of Canon Law or the other documents of the Council.

This is clearly explained in the promulgating documents at the beginning of the Catechim of the Catholic Church.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

i don't know any trad, that is the biggest fan of the New Catechism.

[quote]In particular, the novelties of Vatican II appear in the following paragraphs:

    *

      an infatuation with the dignity of man (§§225; 369; 1700; 1929...),
    *

      such that we may hope for the salvation of all the baptized (§§1682ff),
    *

      even non-Catholics (§818),
    *

      or those who commit suicide (§2283),
    *

      and of all the unbaptised, whether adults (§847),
    *

      or infants (§1261);
    *

      which is the basis of all rights (§§1738; 1930; 1935) including that of religious liberty (§§2106ff),
    *

      and the motive of all morality (§1706; 1881; 2354; 2402; 2407, etc.),
    *

      a commitment to ecumenism (§820f; 1399; 1401) because all religions are instruments of salvation (§§819; 838-843; 2104),
    *

      collegiality (§§879-885),
    *

      over-emphasis on the priesthood of the faithful (§§873; 1547; 1140ff, etc.). [/quote]

basically this is what they do not like. they stick to the traditional catechisms like the Baltimore Catechism, and the Catechism of Pius X.

[son_of_angels]

Authoritative refers specifically to the fact that it is talking correctly about what it talks about, or at least in such a way that it properly represents current instructions on how to represent such things. However, as has been said before, neither the Catechism, nor something based on the Catechism, has the power to raise a doctrine above the status which it already possesses in terms of "dogma" etc.

That is why the Catechism is a great introduction to 2000 years of Catholic teaching, but not an end to it. One should get out their catechism, get out the original documents, some of which ARE infallible in one way or another, and get to studying, rather than simply saying, "O, the catechism says blankety-blank so blankety-blank."

[Cam42]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Apr 17 2006, 10:30 AM']i don't know any trad, that is the biggest fan of the New Catechism.

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I am Sam. I love the Catechism of the Catholic Church. And I am most definintely "trad."