Sojourner Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 Thus, the refutation of this post is that ONE HALF of all the Catholics in the entire world BELIEVED that Luther was right, and took a hike. So, despite whatever answers you might have, they ignited a firestorm, and look what happened. .... That was the POST OF THE MILLENIUM, look at the impact that one had. Makes me jealous, no one I've ever met had a post that took off like that one did. Imagine.... Converting OUT 1/2 of all the Catholics in the world with one post...and that included thousands of Priests, thousands of Monks, thousands of Nuns, and Bishops too. Presumably they understood the doctrinal differences, and had heard all the issues, and left. Bruce, You make it seem as though half the church read Luther’s statements and took off, shaking the dust off their feet as they went. It’s just not that simple. Of course Luther's posting affected the course of the Reformation, but there was so much going on at that time socially, economically, and politically that you simply can’t give him as much credit as you have – “converting out ½ of all the Catholics in the world with one post.” A major factor in the Reformation was Henry VIII, who wanted a divorce from his wife so that he could marry Anne Boleyn in the hopes of producing a male heir. In his book “Characters of the Reformation,” Hillaire Belloc sketches more than 20 people who played a role in the Reformation. He credits Boleyn with being the pivotal figure in the English Reformation – she had a fierce desire to be Queen. Belloc goes so far as to say that had the English Reformation not happened, the Reformation in general would likely have faded over time, and we would still be one church. Were it not for a king who wanted a divorce, and a woman who wanted to be queen, you might be having quite a different conversation with us today. Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PedroX Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 Sojourner, nice... peace... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 :clap: Thanks, PedroX, Just wanted to send a few emoticons your way, since I know you love them so. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 Ironmonk, am I really to believe that a man who grew up in the Catholic Church, attending seminary in the Catholic Church, was allowed to teach in the Catholic Church never understood what the Catholic Church taught? And that no one he ever dealt with ever figured out he was so blinded until after he left? I find that very difficult to believe, especially for one considered so intelligent and having done so well through his schooling. Martin Luther was scrupulous. To overcome it, he decided to change centuries-old teachings in favor of his own doctrines to try and give himself peace of mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 aye, I'm sure he did it for peace of mind and not because he believed it to be the truth. <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.SIGGA Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 poo fights with the devil would make me want to find peace of mind too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 At least he had that much passion in his life. How many times have you cried out in the night seeking Christ and his comfort? Not just cried, but screamed, and ranted. The passion that dominated his life and your mockery with "poo fights with the devil" I question if you have done anything of the sort. To think that it is recorded he fought nightly, and not just once in a while is amazing. Do not mock one's passion that is greater than anything you have ever had, but look to it with wonder and seek to follow the example, drawing closer to Christ than you ever would have thought possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.SIGGA Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 At least he had that much passion in his life. How many times have you cried out in the night seeking Christ and his comfort? Not just cried, but screamed, and ranted. The passion that dominated his life and your mockery with "poo fights with the devil" I question if you have done anything of the sort. To think that it is recorded he fought nightly, and not just once in a while is amazing. Do not mock one's passion that is greater than anything you have ever had, but look to it with wonder and seek to follow the example, drawing closer to Christ than you ever would have thought possible. Whoa.....hold on a sec! No personal attacks please because I don't even know you! If throwing little pieces of poo poo is mocking one's passion that is greater than anything you have ever had please let me step aside. I can't say that I have had poo fights. When I have ever been in straights about something all I have to do is call on Jesus and he always helps me. He's always delivers and he's always ontime and I have no need for poo. There is nothing inspirational about poo and it's probably a sign he needed an exorcist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socalscout Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 (edited) At least he had that much passion in his life. How many times have you cried out in the night seeking Christ and his comfort? Not just cried, but screamed, and ranted. The passion that dominated his life and your mockery with "poo fights with the devil" I question if you have done anything of the sort. To think that it is recorded he fought nightly, and not just once in a while is amazing. Do not mock one's passion that is greater than anything you have ever had, but look to it with wonder and seek to follow the example, drawing closer to Christ than you ever would have thought possible. Circle ML's "Passion" is a Red Herring. Your answer to M.Sigga is a tu quoque arguement as well albeit his/her comment struck you to heart. God Bless. Edited December 30, 2003 by socalscout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 It strikes me to heart because he is mocking the passion that is driving Martin Luther. Not necessarily because it was him. Too often I never see any passion within any "Christian" and it is terrible to see. We have an amesome God who is worthy of everything, one who has plucked us from the depths of sin, freeing us so that we may serve Him. It is the desire for Him that will draw us closer and allow us our joy in Him. Desiring God by John Piper The Pursuit of God by A.W.Tozer If you have not read them, do so. They are by "protestants" but even for you Catholics probably a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 Martin Luther had poo fights with the devil. Martin Luther loved Jesus AND His mama. St Francis told his followers to defecate in Satan's mouth. St Francis loved Jesus AND His mama. Luther was wrong. Luther divided the Body of Christ. Luther called Jesus Christ a liar, spat in His Bride's face, and paved the way for aan uprecedented lack of respect being directed at the Mother of God (and me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 I stand by my comment. I don't fully support Luther, but he knew...to know does not mean to agree with. Luther loved your church...the church didn't love him. What a man! To go against all his security to find peace within himself. We don't have to agree with him, but it's nice to see men of his courage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 (edited) Luther was wrong. Luther divided the Body of Christ. Luther called Jesus Christ a liar, spat in His Bride's face, and paved the way for aan uprecedented lack of respect being directed at the Mother of God (and me). your Catholicism is showing through . Not that I wouldn't expect it to, I am at a Catholic Apologetics board. -divided the Body of Christ - Perhaps, or restored it. -called Jesus Christ a liar - definately not, said the church was misdirected yes, but to prevail is complete domination. There is always a remnant, that much is promised. -spat in brides face - well maybe if the Catholic Church was his bride. -lack of respect at the Mother of God? I know no mother of God, I know a vessel chosen, and a mother of Jesus. Sometimes I think you guys actually believer her to have produced God (although I know it isn't true). I still don't like people mocking one's desire however. I find it better to have a desire albeit misdirected, than to have none and merely say you believe the correct thing. I guess that would be James theology showing through as he says that true religion is to care for the widows. Edited December 30, 2003 by Circle_Master Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 Amen :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musturde Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 (edited) Aight something bout Martin Luther... I personal think his theories were just stupid but from what I know he is insane so that would disqualify all of that. His passion for God was tight though. Edited December 30, 2003 by musturde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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