For those opposed to LifeTeen

[Domine ut Videam]

First off, sorry if this isn't the appropriate place for this to go...i didn't really know where to post it.

A couple of weeks ago I had a very disturbing conversation with Eens on PhatChat about LifeTeen. He was telling me that the teens involved in LT basically were only in it for the loud music, and that it was a bad program, that had no good aspects. While I will admit that there are still some things about LT that i am still questioning I have seen 100fold the fruits of it's labor. I would like you all to read this thread and to check out this website. I started this thread out of curiosity of what type of responses I would get. The question that I asked the teens on the LT website was if they would go to mass if it was not LT mass.... because that was my problem with LT....but look at the responses I have gotten so far.

[url="http://www.lifeteen.com/default.aspx?PageID=TEENTALKTHREAD&&__ForumID=5&__ThreadID=16618"]Lifeteen Mass[/url]

Feel free to check out the rest of the forum. These are searching teens, but most are grounded in their Catholicism. And I just hate it when everyone is down on the teenage generation of today; because we are not what you think we are. Thanks for listening and being open.

-Yours in Christ
Lauren

Edited May 6, 2006 by Domine ut Videam

[Domine ut Videam]

just want to raise awareness :

[Luthien]

[quote name='Domine ut Videam' post='973517' date='May 6 2006, 12:39 PM']And I just hate it when everyone is down on the teenage generation of today; because we are not what you think we are. Thanks for listening and being open. [/quote]


I find this funny, considering Sam(EENS) is 16 years old. Very much a teenager himself.

[Domine ut Videam]

What! I had no idea! I just knew that he was attacking me and the program in the chat a couple of weeks ago...and when i asked him what he actually knew about it....and if he knew any actual teens involved in it....wow...

[Luthien]

You'll find that there are a lot of youngish SSPX kids on PM saying that we're all neo-Catholics.

It makes me sad, I wish we could just get along.

[Domine ut Videam]

yeah......i am slowly coming to realize that, i posted about that on the lame board, in thomas moore's fish eaters' thread...you should read it. I might have been a bit harsh...but i don't know.

I just wish everyone could realize that we are all one Body, I mean the Church is the Church. There are not neo-trads, trads, whatever, it makes me frustrated.

[Luthien]

I feel ya.

[dUSt]

You'll find that many phatmassers, including myself, have no problem with Lifeteen except for a few liturgical aspects of it.

Why? Well, your own statement is why...

[quote]I just wish everyone could realize that we are all one Body, I mean the Church is the Church.[/quote]
We [b]are[/b] all one body, so we should all celebrate the sacrafice of the mass the same way. No reason to change or alter the liturgy for one specific demographic.

I don't want to overlook the positive aspects of Lifeteen though, which are many. I just think a different approach to engaging teens into the liturgy would be more productive, because what happens to the teens who fall in love with the "Lifeteen way", leave home, and then have to "settle" on the common liturgy celebrated in every Catholic church?

What we tried to do at the first phatmass event was to attract teens with music, activities and fun--but all of this came [b]before[/b] and [b]after[/b] mass, not during. The contrast that was created, I think, had a profound influence on the teens and I believe that they all got a lot more out of that mass for that very reason.

[Akalyte]

i'm sorry im not into the whole life teen thing. The Catholic Church itself is for teens. The mass doesnt need to be altared or changed to suit them.

Edited May 8, 2006 by Akalyte

[Luthien]

[quote name='dUSt' post='974722' date='May 7 2006, 09:03 PM']
You'll find that many phatmassers, including myself, have no problem with Lifeteen except for a few liturgical aspects of it.

Why? Well, your own statement is why...
We [b]are[/b] all one body, so we should all celebrate the sacrafice of the mass the same way. No reason to change or alter the liturgy for one specific demographic.

I don't want to overlook the positive aspects of Lifeteen though, which are many. I just think a different approach to engaging teens into the liturgy would be more productive, because what happens to the teens who fall in love with the "Lifeteen way", leave home, and then have to "settle" on the common liturgy celebrated in every Catholic church?

What we tried to do at the first phatmass event was to attract teens with music, activities and fun--but all of this came [b]before[/b] and [b]after[/b] mass, not during. The contrast that was created, I think, had a profound influence on the teens and I believe that they all got a lot more out of that mass for that very reason.
[/quote]


I agree with you too dUSt. My biggest issue is how some people can be kinda mean about LifeTeen in general. I'm not absolutely in love with the music they tend to use. But some people being completely nasty about it kind of ruins their actual point about wanting to retain the beauty of the liturgy.

[Domine ut Videam]

I know what you mean....i wish the site was runnning today...but it is down. Check out the forum tomorrow. Because honestly the teens are not like that. The link was the most important part of the whole post... and today it won't work...so please check it out tomorrow:)

[ironmonk]

[quote name='Domine ut Videam' post='973517' date='May 6 2006, 11:39 AM']
First off, sorry if this isn't the appropriate place for this to go...i didn't really know where to post it.

A couple of weeks ago I had a very disturbing conversation with Eens on PhatChat about LifeTeen. He was telling me that the teens involved in LT basically were only in it for the loud music, and that it was a bad program, that had no good aspects. While I will admit that there are still some things about LT that i am still questioning I have seen 100fold the fruits of it's labor. I would like you all to read this thread and to check out this website. I started this thread out of curiosity of what type of responses I would get. The question that I asked the teens on the LT website was if they would go to mass if it was not LT mass.... because that was my problem with LT....but look at the responses I have gotten so far.

[url="http://www.lifeteen.com/default.aspx?PageID=TEENTALKTHREAD&&__ForumID=5&__ThreadID=16618"]Lifeteen Mass[/url]

Feel free to check out the rest of the forum. These are searching teens, but most are grounded in their Catholicism. And I just hate it when everyone is down on the teenage generation of today; because we are not what you think we are. Thanks for listening and being open.

-Yours in Christ
Lauren
[/quote]


The problem that most people have with Lifeteen is not because of teenagers... it is because of the gross errors taught to teens.

I've surfed through their message board... grounded in Catholicism is not a thought that crossed my mind.

God Bless,
ironmonk

[Domine ut Videam]

[quote name='ironmonk' post='974745' date='May 7 2006, 07:21 PM']
I've surfed through their message board... grounded in Catholicism is not a thought that crossed my mind.
[/quote]


Have you ever talked to these teens....any teen that is a part of this, or an organization like it? Because obviously, you haven't. The majority of waht i have seen are very serious about their faith. They want to learn more, but unfortunately no one is there to teach them, so they have to teach themselves. I think about sending them here....but then i don't for fear that they will feel as though they are not "Catholic" enough.

[quote name='Akalyte' post='974724' date='May 7 2006, 07:05 PM']
i'm sorry im not into the whole life teen thing. The Catholic Church itself is for teens. The mass doesnt need to be altared or changed to suit them.
[/quote]


huh????? What do you mean it is for us??

[dUSt]

[quote name='Domine ut Videam' post='974755' date='May 7 2006, 06:33 PM']
I think about sending them here....but then i don't for fear that they will feel as though they are not "Catholic" enough.
huh????? What do you mean it is for us??[/quote]
Geesh.

The opposite of that statement would be, "I'd send my kids to Lifeteen, but don't for fear that they will feel they are too "Catholic".

Not good. haha

What Akalyte meant was that the church, in it's universal form, is what the teens should be attracted to, and not just the Lifeteen presentation of it.

Again, I don't want to bash Lifeteen because it has a lot of positive things going for it. Like anything (phatmass for example), there is good and bad. If I can be biased for a moment, I think it's a mistake to not expose teens to phatmass though. Any teen here who consistently engages in the conversations will tell you that phatmass has helped strengthen their understanding and devotion to their faith.

[Mercy me]

....and the the reason for the rephormation. Yeah rephormation!!

[Domine ut Videam]

[quote name='dUSt' post='974767' date='May 7 2006, 07:41 PM']
Geesh.

The opposite of that statement would be, "I'd send my kids to Lifeteen, but don't for fear that they will feel they are too "Catholic".

Not good. haha

What Akalyte meant was that the church, in it's universal form, is what the teens should be attracted to, and not just the Lifeteen presentation of it.

Again, I don't want to bash Lifeteen because it has a lot of positive things going for it. Like anything (phatmass for example), there is good and bad. If I can be biased for a moment, I think it's a mistake to not expose teens to phatmass though. Any teen here who consistently posts will tell you that overall, it has helped them.
[/quote]


That is what I meant : (And by the way i am a teen, i don't have kids) I meant the people i know on LT.com.

That was what i wanted the original post to be about, i asked a question on the LT forum about the LT mass, and about whether or not they would go to a normal mass when a LT one was being offered, and what they would do after college. And the majority of the responses that i got was stating that they went to mass first and foremost to receive Jesus Christ; Eucharist, communion, to partake in fellowship.

That is what i meant....And i am ALL FOR phatmass! I love it here. And i would recommend my friends to come here....i am just hesitant because of what i said. I am worried that they will be accused of not being Catholic or something like that. When i first came i was a bit freaked out....i don't know...but i didn't meant say that people shouldn't come here! I love it here. I actually first came ehre for the vocation station.

-Yours in Christ
Lauren

[MilesChristi]

I've never really seen the need for a LifeTeen Mass to exist, but I don't think any less of the people who attend them. Some of my friends are involved with the organization, and I'll be the first to admit that they're better Christians than I am.

[jasJis]

Yeah. LifeTeen isn't 'Catholic' enough. A little bit different music and homilies that try to show that teens can relate to Catholicism is WRONG. I mean, they come to Masss, recieve the Eucharist, learn it's the Real Presence, but it's all ruined with GUITARS! Either like Catholicism for what is is, gregorian chant and recieving on the tongue or don't be Catholic. Salvation just might pass you by.

Besides, Father J didn't care for phatmass years ago.

[foundsheep]

The mass isnt about self -entertainment, its about god.

[jiyoung]

I think Lifeteen is okay. It's definitely been a great evangelization tool, bringing kids back into the Church. I just think that it's teaching a very shallow and emotional faith. I realize that this isn't the aim of the program, but with the way it's set up, there's no way to monitor how the program is used in each parish. I've found that it concentrates too much on what will entice teens.

I was involved in Lifeteen for a while and "spiritual highs and lows" were really common for me--I felt like I was spiritually bipolar or something. When I went to "Lifeteen Mass" and had the praise music and stuff, I felt great. But during the week, that tended to disappear. What grounded me in my faith was learning about the Truth, and developing [i]steady habits[/i] like daily mass, etc. Even though I felt like I had to force myself to do these things sometimes, I experienced far fewer "spiritual lows" this way. I think it was because I had developed a very firm foundation in the truth and so regardless of how I was feeling, I knew I would never stray from the faith again. Lifeteen seems to be more about "Lifeteen Mass" and "Lifenites" and whatnot--special events that aren't a part of daily life. Our faith needs to be part of our daily life. I don't think Lifeteen promotes that enough--again, not that it doesn't have that as part of its aim, but it's very vaguely focused.

For example: I am involved at a Korean church in my area. I went to a Steubenville conference with them, and there were girls tearfully talking about how they had felt they had lost their faith and God didn't love them because they didn't receive any "gifts of the Holy Spirit." This absolutely dumbfounded me until I realized that they had been basing their faith on these experiences. The charismatics were what their Catholicism was all about--isn't that sad? They didn't receive tongues or something and so their faith is gone. This is why I believe the charismatic movement (while admittedly valid) is flawed; it focuses too much on emotional aspects, which wax and wane with our feelings. (Incidentally, I came to this conclusion through PM's influence--Phatmass has done wonders for me.) Lifeteen, or at least all of the LT parishes I know of/have friends at, are heavily involved in charismatics. Again, this appeals to our emotions, and teenagers run HIGH on emotions, with girls declaring their love for their boyfriends after two weeks and threatening suicide if they break up after three, among other examples. This same church is also having a lot of problems with their youth group because people show up to these events but not necessarily to Mass, and become discouraged and end up leaving the Church.

My old church also modeled their youth group after LT. I ended up quitting the music ministry (a P&W affair, with drums and all) because the people in charge focused too much on using music as a tool to bring people to the Mass--therefore diverting attention from the Eucharist to the band. The music Lifeteen uses is very entertaining, but entertainment has no place in the Mass. Do you see jugglers in the Mass? (...this is a bad question, because I've heard of it being done, but still.) The music should help us focus on the Eucharist, not distract attention from it. The youth group at my old church is also suffering quite a bit. There are nasty cliques and the group does mostly "fellowship-based" (aka social) activities now.

I really think that Lifeteen, while it's a fairly effective tool, brings kids in in droves and then fails to do anything else with them. It might be a good starter (it was for me) but it really lacks substance.