Archbishop Flynn moves Fr. Altier

[Cam42]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='980413' date='May 13 2006, 04:21 PM']
I'm curious why Fr. Altier has been Associate Pastor at St. Agnes for 14 years in the first place.
[/quote]

Because he was too "controversial." The Archdiocese didn't want to risk giving him a parish and having him teach the Truth.

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='981117' date='May 14 2006, 06:12 PM']
I really don't think anyone here is qualified to discuss the diocesean assignments given to priests by their bishop. God is ultimately in chage and obedience is a virtue for clergy and laity alike.
[/quote]

Unless you, point blank, know the reasoning behind it......

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='981151' date='May 14 2006, 05:52 PM']
God bless Father for taking his assignment in Holy Obedience.
[/quote]

[cmotherofpirl]

As I said we are not qualified to judge this. God's will be done.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Cam42' post='981167' date='May 14 2006, 07:35 PM']
Because he was too "controversial." The Archdiocese didn't want to risk giving him a parish and having him teach the Truth.
[/quote]

So, are you suggesting that the rest of the priests in the diocese are not teaching and preaching the Truth? They are somehow safe to unleash on the general public?

[Cam42]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='981327' date='May 15 2006, 07:01 AM']
So, are you suggesting that the rest of the priests in the diocese are not teaching and preaching the Truth? They are somehow safe to unleash on the general public?
[/quote]

No, I am suggesting that Fr. Altier isn't willing to be PC to get his point across. I am suggesting that Fr. Altier promotes orthodoxy with a ferocity that is sorely lacking in the majority of the Archdiocese's priests.

HSMom, don't forget I know the majority of the priests and I know the establishment in the Archdiocese. Fr. Altier doesn't pull punches. He is not afraid to talk about sin, call for people to get in the confessional, and return to the Sacraments.

Fr. Altier's pasotral style doesn't "fit the model" that has been created by Archbishop Flynn, Bishop Pates, and Fr. Kevin McDonough. The thing is......he is/was effective. How many priests do you know that have brought at least 200 people into the Church, SINGLE HANDEDLY? How many priests do you know that will spend 6 hours a week in the confessional, EVERY WEEK!!!! How many priests do you know that preach about, teach about and speak about sin, in a manner that doesn't offend, but rather brings people back to the Church.....

That is why he is not a pastor. He doesn't bend to the establishment. He stands up for the Truth and he doesn't compromise on said Truth. Can you say the same thing about these parishes: St. Joan of Arc? St. Stephen? Pax Christi? The Basilica of St. Mary? Our Lady of Lourdes? I can keep going....but I won't....it is really sad that a priest is being treated the way that he is.

Please pray for him....please pray for his vocation....please pray that this time in the desert will be fruitful. Fr. Altier is a good and holy priest.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Cam42' post='981330' date='May 15 2006, 06:26 AM']
HSMom, don't forget I know the majority of the priests and I know the establishment in the Archdiocese. Fr. Altier doesn't pull punches. He is not afraid to talk about sin, call for people to get in the confessional, and return to the Sacraments.
[/quote]

I don't think you'd ever let us forget.

Cam-- Don't get me wrong, I think moving him to Hastings is punative. But that's what [i]I[/i] think. I am not inside the Archbishop's head, so I am hesitent to say that I what think and what he thinks are one in the same. We have no idea how long this assignement will be (I'm going to guess not 14 years). I never said that Fr. Altier isn't a good priest. However, I think when a priest has such a following it can be problematic. What's to keep Fr. Altier from continuing to sit for six hours in St. Agnes' confessional anyway? It doesn't sound like he's going to have much else to do anyway.

I'm not saying there aren't problems at St. Joan's and those other parishes you mentioned. But they are just as much magnets as St. Agnes is. People go to those kinds of parishes because they like what they do there (Even if what they do there is terribly wrong). In the same way, people flock to St. Agnes because they like what they do there. Do you really think that the average Joe Catholic who lives in Frogtown goes so St. Agnes because it's their local parish? Or is the vast majority of parishoners driving in from elsewhere? People pick and choose...

[thessalonian]

Cmother,

I hate to tell you but in this AD it is quite clear that it is because of the VIRTUS program that Fr. Alteir was being reassigned. The program is a tradgedy in a time when Catholics are ignorant enough of their faith as it is, this watered down gobbledegook of a program that attacks our childrens ignorance is being promoted in this Archdiocese. For the life of me I can't understand why when there are alternative programs. I will say one thing. This may well be the straw that broke the camels back. I do know that Fr. Altier preached some things that would be considered to be revelations over the radio and in sermons. Making predictions about the timing of them. I do think that what he said on these matters crossed the line at times (though I am not opposed to those things) and that many in this AD weren't too happy with him. But he is right on the VIRTUS program from what I have seen and he is being silenced for it. Perhaps because AB Flynn had a part in brining this program in to the Church.

By the way the driving force for this program is that insurance companies are requiring it. It is not so much about the priest scandal as the article that is linked indicates.

Fr. Altier is rock solid and it is ashame that he has been silenced in this manner. However, we must not divide the Church over this. I do not agree with Flynn on this one but he has the authority to do it and so Fr. Altier must be obedient and we must trust that the Lord is guiding his Church even through mistakes.

God bless all

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='Cam42' post='981330' date='May 15 2006, 08:26 AM']
No, I am suggesting that Fr. Altier isn't willing to be PC to get his point across. I am suggesting that Fr. Altier promotes orthodoxy with a ferocity that is sorely lacking in the majority of the Archdiocese's priests.

HSMom, don't forget I know the majority of the priests and I know the establishment in the Archdiocese. Fr. Altier doesn't pull punches. He is not afraid to talk about sin, call for people to get in the confessional, and return to the Sacraments.

Fr. Altier's pasotral style doesn't "fit the model" that has been created by Archbishop Flynn, Bishop Pates, and Fr. Kevin McDonough. The thing is......he is/was effective. How many priests do you know that have brought at least 200 people into the Church, SINGLE HANDEDLY? How many priests do you know that will spend 6 hours a week in the confessional, EVERY WEEK!!!! How many priests do you know that preach about, teach about and speak about sin, in a manner that doesn't offend, but rather brings people back to the Church.....

That is why he is not a pastor. He doesn't bend to the establishment. He stands up for the Truth and he doesn't compromise on said Truth. Can you say the same thing about these parishes: St. Joan of Arc? St. Stephen? Pax Christi? The Basilica of St. Mary? Our Lady of Lourdes? I can keep going....but I won't....it is really sad that a priest is being treated the way that he is.

Please pray for him....please pray for his vocation....please pray that this time in the desert will be fruitful. Fr. Altier is a good and holy priest.
[/quote]
my priest is like this, only of a slightly milder temperament. he has run into problems with our diocese as well. Father Altier is bound to be obedient, and I think we should all keep in mind that as long as we do what is right according to the Church, then the trifling politics and petty disappointments of life will mean little.

[Cam42]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='981334' date='May 15 2006, 07:50 AM']
I don't think you'd ever let us forget.

Cam-- Don't get me wrong, I think moving him to Hastings is punative. But that's what [i]I[/i] think. I am not inside the Archbishop's head, so I am hesitent to say that I what think and what he thinks are one in the same. We have no idea how long this assignement will be (I'm going to guess not 14 years). I never said that Fr. Altier isn't a good priest. However, I think when a priest has such a following it can be problematic. What's to keep Fr. Altier from continuing to sit for six hours in St. Agnes' confessional anyway? It doesn't sound like he's going to have much else to do anyway.

I'm not saying there aren't problems at St. Joan's and those other parishes you mentioned. But they are just as much magnets as St. Agnes is. People go to those kinds of parishes because they like what they do there (Even if what they do there is terribly wrong). In the same way, people flock to St. Agnes because they like what they do there. Do you really think that the average Joe Catholic who lives in Frogtown goes so St. Agnes because it's their local parish? Or is the vast majority of parishoners driving in from elsewhere? People pick and choose...
[/quote]

Nice jab....but I'll take it....

Yes, the move to Hastings is punative. There is nothing secretive about that. Why in the world would you take someone with the pastoral experience of Fr. Altier and make him an assistant chaplin to a 61 bed Hospital? It is illogical. We don't know how long this assignment will be, but I can guarantee you that it will be extended. He will have to settle in at the nursing home. What is to keep Fr. Altier from sitting in the confessional? Primarily the fact that he won't be welcome to do so at St. Agnes any longer. Why do you think that the Archdiocese has moved him 30 miles away? Coincidence? Nope.

Those previously listed parishes are magnets, but you are proving my point for me with that statement. They are magnets of heterodoxy and not orthodoxy. Why is it that I can rattle off multiple parishes which are heterodox and only list one which is orthodox? It is this unbending orthodoxy that Fr. Altier preaches that is part of the draw. The ceremonies, in which Fr. Altier promotes and celebrates is the other. Why do people flock to St. Agnes? Because they want sound, orthodox Catholic teaching and life. Simple.

Considering that I lived in Frogtown for 2 years [b]AT ST. AGNES,[/b] I can speak to the Catholic people of Frogtown. There are several parishes that are in the immediate area, St. Vincent's, St. Adelbert's, St. Columba, St. Agnes, St. Bernard's. And St. Agnes has the best attended Masses, I am not talking about the 10am Latin High Mass either, which typically draws 200-300 people. I am talking about 150-200 people at the 6am, 400-500 people at the 8:30am, and the 12 Noon, which as you know.....are in English.

While St. Agnes does have those who drive in, St. Agnes has ALWAYS had people who drive in. It is the German National Parish. It doesn't have territorial boundaries as do the other parishes, but traditionally has ministered to all the German-speaking people of the Archdiocese. So, that doesn't suprise me, nor should it suprise anyone.

Finally, HSMom....when I speak about this, I am coming from a unique position. That of an insider. I know the inner workings and I know the reasonings behind the motivation of Fr. Altier. It is a strong and precise commitment to orthodoxy. It is unwavering and it is fueled by the love (agape) of the people whom he serves. What more do we want from our priests?

[Proud2BCatholic139]

[quote name='brendan1104' post='979665' date='May 12 2006, 09:34 PM']
Father Robert Altier preaching...
[/quote]

As my friends go to this school and I attend this church, that is kind of a shame, but let God's Will be done and Arch Bishop Flynn knows best as he is one of God's disciples and God is working in him.

[homeschoolmom]

Cam, I think you think I am in complete opposition to your possition, but I'm not. I agree that Fr. Altier apprears to be being moved as a punitive action and I think (IMO) that he can be of more use elsewhere. My original question was, "Why has he been at St. Anges for so long in the first place?" He should never have been there so long. He should (IMHO) have been given a parish-- There ARE other parishes who would have loved to have had him. Why not spread that kind of teaching around? Why make St. Agnes the only magnet?

[Cam42]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='981395' date='May 15 2006, 10:02 AM']
Cam, I think you think I am in complete opposition to your possition, but I'm not. I agree that Fr. Altier apprears to be being moved as a punitive action and I think (IMO) that he can be of more use elsewhere. My original question was, "Why has he been at St. Anges for so long in the first place?" He should never have been there so long. He should (IMHO) have been given a parish-- There ARE other parishes who would have loved to have had him. Why not spread that kind of teaching around? Why make St. Agnes the only magnet?
[/quote]

There is a long history of long associate pastorates at St. Agnes. Fr. Ince who was the previous curate was there for 17 years. Before that Fr. Peters who was there 11 years.

Part of the reasoning is that the parish is a National parish and dealing with the German peoples plays a part in that....but since Fr. Altier knows the elaborate ceremonines, it was advantageous to leave him there.

Why should he have not been there so long? Perhaps the good that he was doing at St. Agnes allowed for him to be more available to the necessities of his pastoral and priestly ministry. I do know that he has applied to be pastor in the past, however.

What is with this "magnet" fixation. St. Agnes is a "magnet" only insofar as it is orthodox. People will gravitate toward that.

I think that to move Fr. Altier is not just.

[Lil Red]

i'm not a mod who can re-size pictures, but someone for the LOVE please do so?

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Cam42' post='981404' date='May 15 2006, 09:38 AM']
What is with this "magnet" fixation. St. Agnes is a "magnet" only insofar as it is orthodox. People will gravitate toward that.
[/quote]

Because I thought that since we were Catholic, we were to attend our local parishes and help make them the best they can be-- not pick and choose where we want to go like Protestants do.

[stbernardLT]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='981416' date='May 15 2006, 10:17 AM']
Because I thought that since we were Catholic, we were to attend our local parishes and help make them the best they can be-- not pick and choose where we want to go like Protestants do.
[/quote]

This has a lot to do with people being fed by homilies, music, and presentation instead of Jesus. When did the Eucharist loose the central importance in our liturgy and the teaching in the homily become the deciding factor as to whether or not a mass is preferred. That is exactly the same attitudes protestants have. If you want more teaching that is traditional, go to a class, read a book, or make an appointment. If you want Jesus go to mass anywhere. Even as a youth minister it would be wrong for me to say that our youth mass should be a magnet for teens. When we have teens that come from othere parishes, our goal is to educate them on the real presence of Christ and so they will go back to their own parish and empower it. If the strength of a parish is defined by what priest the have, that parish's strength will only last as long as that priest. If this isn't the case for this particular parish then why the fuss. Jesus is still present even if the priest is gone.


By the way, it is awesome that such a holy man will be present to those who are close to death. Those people at the nursing home are truly blessed to have someone who can bring them such hope at what can be a very depressing time. AMEN. Afterall they have every right to a have an excellent priest as everyone else. In fact I would look at them as a proirity in ministry, but then I am not A BISHOP!!!

[Mary-Kathryn]

Yes, I recognize I am about 20+ years older thanmost of you, so be patient with me.


Number one, speculation is all you have. You do not know what was said between Archbishop Flynn and the good Father... you do not have access to one vaild word. Just who wrote this, and who said that, and the rumor is... So what are you doing? I know you admire, look up to, and love him. Granted it seems he is held in high esteem by many, so why shouldn't he go to a nursing home? This brings me to my next point.

Your attitudes towards the elderly is beyond words. Father Altier is being "silenced" by being assigned to a nursing home? This is only if Father chooses to behave that way. There are residents, real human beings, who live for years in these homes. You don't think they have need of good church teaching and good priests? They deserve a vibrant, caring younger priest too! Sure, there may be only one Mass a day at that home right now, but he can bring more to the home. He can bring adoration, lectures, leisure for Catholics [and the others] Confessions, rosary...you name it. He has a very valid assignment with God's beloved children. Not one of you has the right to see this as a punishment. It is a very privileged assignment Fr. A. has.

Regarding the population of the home. Depending on what type of home it is, there may be all ages there. Some elderly permanent, some getting transition care before being sent elsewhere, and maybe even a young person who has no one else to care for his severe condition. Then there are the families who come. They need the care of a priest too. What about those who never see family? They need him. The staff needs a priest there for themselves as well, they're not bulletproof. It can hurt sometimes. Perhaps in time Fr can become part of the fabric of the surrounding community as well.

I am sorry for the great loss to his parish and his wider community through his show, but where he is going to is a real parish with very real needs. It will only be as lacking as he makes it.

Edited May 15, 2006 by Mary-Kathryn

[Cam42]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='981416' date='May 15 2006, 11:17 AM']
Because I thought that since we were Catholic, we were to attend our local parishes and help make them the best they can be-- not pick and choose where we want to go like Protestants do.
[/quote]

St. Agnes is not bound by territorial boundaries. How many times do I have to say that?

[Cam42]

[quote name='stbernardLT' post='981433' date='May 15 2006, 11:40 AM']
This has a lot to do with people being fed by homilies, music, and presentation instead of Jesus. When did the Eucharist loose the central importance in our liturgy and the teaching in the homily become the deciding factor as to whether or not a mass is preferred. That is exactly the same attitudes protestants have. If you want more teaching that is traditional, go to a class, read a book, or make an appointment. If you want Jesus go to mass anywhere. Even as a youth minister it would be wrong for me to say that our youth mass should be a magnet for teens. When we have teens that come from othere parishes, our goal is to educate them on the real presence of Christ and so they will go back to their own parish and empower it. If the strength of a parish is defined by what priest the have, that parish's strength will only last as long as that priest. If this isn't the case for this particular parish then why the fuss. Jesus is still present even if the priest is gone.
By the way, it is awesome that such a holy man will be present to those who are close to death. Those people at the nursing home are truly blessed to have someone who can bring them such hope at what can be a very depressing time. AMEN. Afterall they have every right to a have an excellent priest as everyone else. In fact I would look at them as a proirity in ministry, but then I am not A BISHOP!!!
[/quote]

Bernie,

Have you ever been to St. Agnes? Have you ever attended one of the Masses there? Have you ever heard one of his homilies? The Eucharist is the source and summit of the life of St. Agnes. Everything that happens at St. Agnes is centered on the Eucharist. It is very presumptious of you to assume that the church of St. Agnes would promote anything else. 98% of Catholics receive their education from the pulpit. The Mass is a central place of teaching. This post goes a long way to show how little understanding you really have of the position of the Mass in the life of a Catholic person. St. Agnes obviously (founded in 1888) is not bound by one priest, but that doesn't mean that the priests who are currently there cannot contribute to the life of the parish and to the history. What would St. Agnes be today without Msgr. Bandas? What would St. Agnes be without Msgr. Schuler? What would St. Agnes be without Bishop Schladweiler? What would St. Agnes be without Fr. Ince or Peters? It would be less. Why because those priests act in [i]persona Christi[/i]. There are times when they are acting in the person of Christ. That is part of what makes a priest an intrigal part of the parish.

No one has said that the people to which Fr. Altier is going to minister, would not be spiritually nourished by his presence, but rather the focus is the injustice that is being forced upon him. I know, because I know Fr. Altier that he will give his all to those people, but how much more could he do if he were still at St. Agnes? The reason being, they already have a chaplin and according to your logic, they are getting all the guidance they need from him, so why send an associate to him, when the nursing home/hospital only has 61 beds. It is unfathomable.....

[quote name='Mary-Kathryn' post='981437' date='May 15 2006, 11:52 AM']
Yes, I recognize I am about 20+ years older thanmost of you, so be patient with me.
Number one, speculation is all you have. You do not know what was said between Archbishop Flynn and the good Father... you do not have access to one vaild word. Just who wrote this, and who said that, and the rumor is... So what are you doing? I know you admire, look up to, and love him. Granted it seems he is held in high esteem by many, so why shouldn't he go to a nursing home? This brings me to my next point.

Your attitudes towards the elderly is beyond words. Father Altier is being "silenced" by being assigned to a nursing home? This is only if Father chooses to behave that way. There are residents, real human beings, who live for years in these homes. You don't think they have need of good church teaching and good priests? They deserve a vibrant, caring younger priest too! Sure, there may be only one Mass a day at that home right now, but he can bring more to the home. He can bring adoration, lectures, leisure for Catholics [and the others] Confessions, rosary...you name it. He has a very valid assignment with God's beloved children. Not one of you has the right to see this as a punishment. It is a very privileged assignment Fr. A. has.

Regarding the population of the home. Depending on what type of home it is, there may be all ages there. Some elderly permanent, some getting transition care before being sent elsewhere, and maybe even a young person who has no one else to care for his severe condition. Then there are the families who come. They need the care of a priest too. What about those who never see family? They need him. The staff needs a priest there for themselves as well, they're not bulletproof. It can hurt sometimes. Perhaps in time Fr can become part of the fabric of the surrounding community as well.

I am sorry for the great loss to his parish and his wider community through his show, but where he is going to is a real parish with very real needs. It will only be as lacking as he makes it.
[/quote]

Actually, I have more access than you know. I have confirmation, not speculation. While I don't know "word for word" what was said, I do know what the conversation was about.

[Mary-Kathryn]

Actually, I have more access than you know. I have confirmation, not speculation. While I don't know "word for word" what was said, I do know what the conversation was about.
[/quote]

** edited myself*** [don't answer that one on second thought. That would be asking you to gossip!!]


If Father A is worthy to serve many, he is worthy to serve those few.

[thessalonian]

Fr. Alteir definitely was moved as a disciplinary action of some sort. However we do need to recognize that Archbishop Flynn has the authority to do this and regardless of where our loyalties toward Fr. Alteir lie we need to recognize AB Flynn's God given authority. Irenaus did not agree with Justin regarding the quadramecian controversy (celebrating Easter on Sunday, vs. whatever day of the week the third day after 14 Nissan fell). He was critical of the decision by the Pope to excommunicate them but never denied his authority to excommunicate.

Blessings