Where's the heresy

[MC Just]

I have a great Idea how about we "keep it catholic". Now a days we seem so focused with everything outside the church. We are not focusing enough on teaching our own people. No instead half of the catholics in the world turn to politics and liberalism. Never mind this retarted "spirit of vatican II" how about "spirit of Catholicism"..?

We are so busy telling budhists and muslims to "be better budhists and muslims". Basically saying we dont have the fulleness of truth anymore and people dont need it. The whole problem with people not believing in the eucharist lies in the fact that we are sliding out of Catholicism and into everything else. The Catholic Church was found in 33 AD. not 1965.

Edited July 5, 2006 by MC Just

[Jaime]

Toledo

Its true that a person may not be a formal heretic, but that does not change the fact that it is a heresy. Know what I mean?

[Franimus]

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' post='1013320' date='Jun 27 2006, 07:11 PM']
Well, I voted yes and more important. Although, like others have stated, I think that its largely ignorance and not deliberate rejection of Truth. Ignorance doesn't necessarily mean "not heretic", and I think thats the distinction Socrates made between formal and material heresy.
[/quote]
same here

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1017449' date='Jul 5 2006, 10:24 AM']
Toledo

Its true that a person may not be a formal heretic, but that does not change the fact that it is a heresy. Know what I mean?
[/quote]
si, claro.

[Didacus]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1017449' date='Jul 5 2006, 08:24 AM']
Toledo

Its true that a person may not be a formal heretic, but that does not change the fact that it is a heresy. Know what I mean?
[/quote]

To this I fullheartedly agree.

To determine which individual is or is not a heretice would require a 'case by case' study would it not?

[Jaime]

[quote name='Didacus' post='1017632' date='Jul 5 2006, 01:56 PM']
To this I fullheartedly agree.

To determine which individual is or is not a heretice would require a 'case by case' study would it not?
[/quote]

Xactly


But l think it would be interesting to address Soj's question


This is an issue (unlike most discussed here) that we can all participate in the solution.

So how?

[pyranima]

I vote Eucharistic Precessions once a month. it does wonders for a parish. Adoration is great, the problem is getting people to adoration, how do we do that? Eucharistic Precessions, Youth age 10=25, arange it like its going to be a huge party do a half mile to a mile precession (if possible it is ideal to march from one Parish to another) then afterward celibrate a short Mass, then top off the event with food, lots and lots of food. not the kind that is neat and you need to be civil to eat we are talking about mostly teenagers here, no i mean the kind of food that animals shouldnt be allowed to eat, Pizza, Popcorn, Chips, Soda (Lots and lots of soda)... Oh, Oh i know whats really fun and this will attract the kids 16-20 and maybe some people 21-25, get a keg, you know the kind you hold beer in, and fill it with rootbeer, oh that is so much fun, it really is. the precession is about 1 to 1.5 hours the mass is about a half hour and the eating is about 45 minutes to an hour. all and all about 3 hours (you need LOTS and i mean a SUPER ABUNDANT amont of incense during the precession) to top off the night you end with a Divine Mercy Chaplet done in a banter style one half of the group says the first half of the prayer and the other half of the group finshes it (for the sake of his sorrowful passion have mercy on us......... And on the whole world.) if you want to see a bunch of teenagers brought to tears this will do it everytime.


YAY JESUS, THE REAL PRESENCE NOT THE REAL ABSENCE.
JESUS AGAPE.

CARITAS PRO IESUS

[Jaime]

Nice suggestions pyranima!!

My parish didn't have adoration for a long time. When I asked about it, they said it was something for "older parishes". (I still don't know what that means) But then they started having weekly adoration. Then it moved to twice a week. The parish has also grown by leaps and bounds since then. Personally, I think the two are directly connected.

I would love to see a Eucharistic procession through the town (preferably right past the new Planned Parenthood clinic in town)

I would also add rosary groups to the list. Every Church I've worked at, I started a youth rosary group. I think folks would be surprised at how many would come each week to pray.

[Resurrexi]

Of course 70% of Catholics are heretics if they don't believe in the Real Presence. If you said they weren't, you would be saying that the Real Presence wasn't dogma. I'm not saying that 70% are all formal heretics, some may only be material heretics.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1013723' date='Jun 28 2006, 07:35 AM']Its bigger than a Marty Haugen music[/quote] are you sure about this?

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1018352' date='Jul 6 2006, 03:05 PM']
are you sure about this?
[/quote]
You're right. It is very close in terms of priorty. The Marty Haugen Problem might be a very, very close second.

[misereremi]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1017646' date='Jul 5 2006, 08:19 PM']
Xactly
But l think it would be interesting to address Soj's question
This is an issue (unlike most discussed here) that we can all participate in the solution.

So how?
[/quote]
I like the suggestions for adoration, rosary groups and processions. Some Catholics don't know what adoration is or how to pray the rosary (yes it is this bad in some places). There are priests who run open Catechism talks here, anyone can drop in. But we find that many people will not take the time out to do this. For many people perhaps the only time they will learn about our faith is during the homily at mass. Some of our priests have made very special, (loud) engaging and direct homilies about the Real Presence and reverence at mass. I think this is a way to go, too. I try to make the effort to get to know people in the parish and talk to them about this but I don't think I've been much help so far.

[dspen2005]

i refuse to even take part in this poll. we as laypeople/priests/religious do not have the authority nor is it proper for us to charge and declare people as heretics. that is proper ONLY to bishops. a correct phrasing the question should be, 'is denial of the real presence a heresy'. the answer would be yes. you get into difference games when you formally declare someone -- however random and anonymous it may be to be heretic. in this sense you are usurping the proper authority belonging to bishops by virtue of their teaching office to declare someone to be a heretic.

as to the distinctions between formal and material heresy... the result is essentially the same -- both are wrong. the culpability/responsibility, however, are different. material heresy would be what the practitioners of PRotestantism would be classified as, theologically speaking. whereas, those such as Martin Luther, Zwingli, etc who were declared -- formally -- heretics by the Pontiff would fall into the first category.

despite all of this, we must be humble and charitable and not presume to declare people heretics because of one error or another.

it is sad that some people do not believe in the real presence -- though, there have been issues and concerns over the actually accuracy of that poll that shows that only 30% of Catholics accept the theological concept of transubstantiation.... but that is another thread. i happen to be one of those people who question that particular statistic. i personally believe that people still hold to the teaching of the Real PResence... though the devotion to it has ebbed, admittedly......

that's enough of my banter.... Pray for me, Br. David Michael

[veni]

I dont think we should be bashing a lot of other Catholics who dont believe or who dont entirely grasp the concept of the Real Presence. It just shows that people are less educated and informed than they used to be. And I believe this falls on our heirarchy that was more concerned with hiding secrets (if you know what I mean) than wanting to educate and love their flock (thank God things are changing) and us for not being loving enough, but instead are to dogmatic in our thinking, that we're to quick to send someone to hell. I dont mean to sound rude, but if we want people to believe in the real presence again, we must first show them the real presence inour own lives!

[veni]

In regards to MC's earlier comment----

"Are we trying to convert people by stooping down to their level? I just dont understand.."


If Christ were here today, walking amoungst us and our churches...and I dont mean to sound clique, but What Would He Do? Didnt our God "stoop down" to people's levels to bring them closer to Him? WWJD? Do you honestly think Christ...CHRIST....would want people to worship him in languages they dont understand, buildings that scare them, and a clergy and people to quick to beaver dam them? So yes, I am a BIG FAN of stooping down.

And I dont have anything against you MC, I did like how you commented how we dont call things evil anymore, but I think part of having the fullness of faith is being humble in that fact, and a willigness to share that with people in ways that bring them closer to Jesus.

Sorry, I dont know yet how to do that cool looking blue box thing...

Edited July 11, 2006 by veni creator spiritus

[avemaria40]

[quote name='pyranima' post='1017784' date='Jul 5 2006, 06:54 PM']
I vote Eucharistic Precessions once a month. it does wonders for a parish. Adoration is great, the problem is getting people to adoration, how do we do that? Eucharistic Precessions, Youth age 10=25, arange it like its going to be a huge party do a half mile to a mile precession (if possible it is ideal to march from one Parish to another) then afterward celibrate a short Mass, then top off the event with food, lots and lots of food. not the kind that is neat and you need to be civil to eat we are talking about mostly teenagers here, no i mean the kind of food that animals shouldnt be allowed to eat, Pizza, Popcorn, Chips, Soda (Lots and lots of soda)... Oh, Oh i know whats really fun and this will attract the kids 16-20 and maybe some people 21-25, get a keg, you know the kind you hold beer in, and fill it with rootbeer, oh that is so much fun, it really is. the precession is about 1 to 1.5 hours the mass is about a half hour and the eating is about 45 minutes to an hour. all and all about 3 hours (you need LOTS and i mean a SUPER ABUNDANT amont of incense during the precession) to top off the night you end with a Divine Mercy Chaplet done in a banter style one half of the group says the first half of the prayer and the other half of the group finshes it (for the sake of his sorrowful passion have mercy on us......... And on the whole world.) if you want to see a bunch of teenagers brought to tears this will do it everytime.
YAY JESUS, THE REAL PRESENCE NOT THE REAL ABSENCE.
JESUS AGAPE.

CARITAS PRO IESUS
[/quote]

We should so do that at my parish! lol, but the only problem is that the nearest Catholic parish to it is probably a couple hours of walking. Oh well, I still think its a really good idea