To Budge

[Budge]

I'm back!!!!!!!

:
[quote]
Traditionalists are not protestants, they are simply disobedient Catholics who think they know the Church better than the Church does.[/quote]


If I hadnt been born again, and realized that the Absolute Truth lied in Gods Word, instead of Coming out of Her, I may have ended up being a Trad Catholic.

The problem with the above, means you have given all your thinking over to the Vatican leaders who now teach every chance they get that there is salvation in other religions [even if deficient] The Trads are correct about WHAT changed. They see the same Theosophy and Freemasonry I warn about. However what they are not correct about is that Rome remains the one true church despite the apostasty.

Jesus warned us all, JUDGE BY the FRUITS, and about blind teachers.

[jswranch]

[quote name='Budge' post='1038108' date='Aug 5 2006, 08:23 AM']
I'm back!!!!!!!

:

The problem with the above, means you have given all your thinking over to the Vatican leaders who now teach every chance they get that there is salvation in other religions [even if deficient] ...[/quote]
Welcome back.

Vatican leaders teaching salvation in other religions every chance they get? Whoa! Check out Ratzinger's DOMINUS IESUS, which was signed by the Pope. In it, the Magisterium taught Catholics, while taking the noble cause of working and diologing with non-Catholics, should never ever compromise their faith. Instead they were to be on their guard. Ratzinger's writtings were so unpopular to the other Vatican Leaders, they elected him Pope!

[Budge]

[quote]Welcome back.

Vatican leaders teaching salvation in other religions every chance they get? Whoa! Check out Ratzinger's DOMINUS IESUS, which was signed by the Pope. In it, the Magisterium taught Catholics, while taking the noble cause of working and diologing with non-Catholics, should never ever compromise their faith. Instead they were to be on their guard. Ratzinger's writtings were so unpopular to the other Vatican Leaders, they elected him Pope![/quote]

Ive read Dominus Iesus, all Dominus Iesus does is make The Catholic Church the center of everything, declaring that all those pagans who reject Christ, will be "saved" even via them.

The document does not make Jesus Christ the center of salvation but the Catholic church.

I see compromise all over the place. Even Ratzinger in all his "conservativism" has taught that Jews do not need to be converted to Christ. Novus Ordo Watch has reported on that before.

All I got to do is look at this book Ratzinger wrote to know something is off..

[img]http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/research/cjl/reviews/MROC.jpg[/img]

[quote]

What we need, however, is [size=5]respect for the beliefs of others and the readiness to look for the truth in what strikes us as strange or foreign;[/size] for such truth concerns us and can correct us and lead us farther along the path….[size=5]Furthermore, I need to be willing to allow my narrow understanding of truth [u]to be broken down[/u][/size]. I shall learn my own truth better if I understand the other person and allow myself to be moved along the road to the God who is ever greater, certain that I never hold the whole truth about God in my own hands but am always a learner, on pilgrimage toward it, on a path that has no end (p. 110).[/quote]

How Universalist can you get?




Also do you expect me to believe the Vatican is even Christian anymore when I see articles like this..
[quote]
Vatican official says contemplation leads to interreligious dialogue

By Catholic News Service

ASSISI, Italy (CNS) -- When followers of different religions contemplate the actions of God, [b]they begin to recognize that all that is good in any religion is the work of the spirit of God, a Vatican official said.[/b]

Archbishop Michael Fitzgerald, president of the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue, said in a message to a group of Catholics, Hindus and Muslims that [b]"a contemplative attitude is at the basis of interreligious dialogue."
[/b]
The group was participating in a July 13-17 meeting in Assisi sponsored by the Italian chapter of the Monastic Interreligious Dialogue, an effort founded by Catholic monks.
[size=5]
The July meeting focused on "the contemplation of God in Hinduism, Benedictine monasticism and Sufism," the mystical tradition of Islam.[/size]
[i]
{THE TITLE OF THIS SEMINAR BASICALLY SAYS THAT GOD IS IN HINDUISM AND SUFISM}[/i]

In his message to the meeting, Archbishop Fitzgerald said, "The theme of contemplation is important not only because it favors [size=5]the discovery of the riches of various traditions[/size], but also because a contemplative attitude is at the basis of interreligious dialogue.

"It helps us see the action of God not only in the hearts of individuals, which is very important, but also in the traditions, customs and rites of the various religions," he said.

"All that is true, good and noble in these traditions can be attributed to the action of the spirit of God," the archbishop said. "Recognizing this leads to greater respect for one another."

Benedictine Father Cipriano Carini, leader of the Italian dialogue group, told the Catholic newspaper Avvenire that the meeting would look at the practice of contemplation as well as the style and structuring of a contemplative life in the various traditions.
[u]
Father Carini told the newspaper that, while monks generally are seen as fleeing the world, contemplation in Christianity, Hinduism and Sufism involves an "active abandonment" in prayer and praise, allowing "the soul to become aware of God present and acting in it."[/u]

END[/quote]

Again, How Universalist can they get?

[Socrates]

[quote name='Budge' post='1038129' date='Aug 5 2006, 09:14 AM']
I see compromise all over the place. Even Ratzinger in all his "conservativism" has taught that Jews do not need to be converted to Christ. Novus Ordo Watch has reported on that before.
[/quote]
Ah yes, Novus Ordo Watch, that source of truthful and unbiased reporting.

Elvis and Bigfoot also got married on an alien spacecraft. The World Weekly News has reported on that before.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

[quote name='Budge' post='1038129' date='Aug 5 2006, 11:14 AM']
Ive read Dominus Iesus, all Dominus Iesus does is make The Catholic Church the center of everything, declaring that all those pagans who reject Christ, will be "saved" even via them.

The document does not make Jesus Christ the center of salvation but the Catholic church.[/quote]
We do not see Jesus and the Church as separate teams. Christ is the Head of the Church.
[quote]I see compromise all over the place. Even Ratzinger in all his "conservativism" has taught that Jews do not need to be converted to Christ.[/quote]
If this is true, I would like to see an example.
[quote][b]Dominus Iesus, no. 22[/b]
Indeed, the Church, guided by charity and respect for freedom, must be primarily committed to proclaiming to all people the truth definitively revealed by the Lord, and to announcing [b]the necessity of conversion to Jesus Christ[/b] and of adherence to the Church through Baptism and the other sacraments, in order to participate fully in communion with God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.[/quote]

[jswranch]

[quote name='Budge' post='1038129' date='Aug 5 2006, 09:14 AM']
Ive read Dominus Iesus, all Dominus Iesus does is make The Catholic Church the center of everything, declaring that all those pagans who reject Christ, will be "saved" even via them.
[/quote]
I think you need further understanding of how us Catholics view the Catholic Church in relation to Jesus. Catholicism is not another flavor or group of Christians. When Jesus asked Paul on the road about the persecution, He asked "Why do you persecute me?" not, "Why do you persecute my followers who have a personal relationship with me?"

[quote]Novus Ordo Watch has reported on that before.[/quote] Hey, if I can get you to accept the beliefs of the Rad-Trad I will be happy because it is a step in the right direction, but still not yet the fullness of truth established by Jesus.

You brought up a fundamental Christian issue that we [u]have to discuss[/u]!

All that is good is an act of God. This means that the grace of God is present and makes each good action possible thoughout the world for all time. We are 'totally depraved' creatures unable to good apart from God's grace. Do you agree?

[Eutychus]

[quote] All that is good is an act of God. This means that the grace of God is present and makes each good action possible thoughout the world for all time. We are 'totally depraved' creatures unable to good apart from God's grace. Do you agree?[/quote]

My son, not everyone is a five pointer you know....

Some are not even four pointers.

Some ....shudder, are merely Christians.