Musings on Marian Apparitions to Molech

[Eutychus]

Musings on Marian Apparitions....

I've always been fascinated with the phenomena of MARIAN APPARITIONS, and have this personal belief that "Mary" will appear one more time at Fatima { it/she/they promised seven appearances, and to date, there have been only six } and in some fashion announce to the astonished world, live and on TV, with billions watching, working hand in glove with the False Prophet the character posing as the final A/C is really the messiah, and vette a universal church, uniting the Muslims, New Agers, and many that claim to be Chrisitians, as the vehicle by which mankind will be saved...

What got me thinking here again { dangerous, I know...} is the new book, QUEEN OF ALL/QUEEN of ROME/QUEEN of ISLAM, by Jim Tetlow, Roger Oakland, and Brad Meyers. For they confirm, or rather, seem to speculate in roughly the same directions that I have been speculating now for a few years.

ANYWAY...

And THIS IS THE TOPIC, it hit me like a ton of bricks this morning. IF, abortion is really the "Sacrament of Satan" his highest desire, his tool to ruin lives, the modern version of human sacrifice and Molech reborn...

[b]AND....

"Apparition Mary" is supposedly the MOTHER image, the FEMALE kind side of the Quatrinity, as a WOMAN, and a MOTHER, why has the "Apparition Mary" NEVER, none of them, and there are thousands of them on record, EVER systematically ...

CONDEMNED ABORTION, as one of the greatest sins of our time? Untold millions of babies are sacrificed on the altar of convience, and yet, not a PEEP on this horror, from the MOTHER GODDESS?[/b]

I submit a hypothesis.

That the apparition is a specific demon, or a team working together, using the credulity of the Marian movement folks, people unskilled in biblical warnings, and [u]the DEMON will condemn sin in general, but ABORTION, being the high mass of satanism, is NEVER going to be condemned specifically and clearly.[/u]

Possilbe insights and proof, if any is really needed, that the "Marian Appariton's" are anything BUT the biblical Mary ... but rather that old dragon, appearing as an "Angel of Light" adopting a form, and a message, that SOUNDS authentic, but is cleverly and subtily packaged to twist and turn God's intended message, exactly as he did way back in the garden...

CAN ANYONE provide a SPECIFIC QUOTE from ANY Marian Apparition that DIRECTLY CONDEMNS abortion? If there are I want to know, so I can correct what I think I've stumbled upon here.

[homeschoolmom]

Didn't we already have a thread on this particular book?

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=54199"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=54199[/url]

[Eutychus]

Yeah, I saw it, thought it was interesting, and got that book, reading it now as a matter of fact.

However, the TOPIC isn't the contents of that book, however fascinating. The TOPIC is have any of the Motherly Mary Apparitions EVER specifically condemned ABORTION. Not alluded to it via general sin, but SPECIFICALLY named it as something she detested.

[homeschoolmom]

I don't really pay attention to that stuff...

[Fides_et_Ratio]

The most modern (approved) Marian apparition is Our Lady of All Nations--but even that's from the 1950s (but I haven't read all her messages yet). And pre Roe v. Wade, abortion was not nearly as rampant and accepted as it is today. I am almost positive that any modern authentic apparition would have an exhortation by Our Blessed Mother to pray for aborted souls, and for the women who abort their children.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

"A house divided against itself cannot stand."

Fatima, Lourdes, et al. are in line with the Gospel and preach a message of turning to Jesus and repenting from sin. Satan would not say such a thing so clearly. If he wanted to appear as Mary, I believe (in my humble opinion), that he would be much more wishy-washy, trying by emotional means to persuade the visionaries to be obedient to the apparition even over Mary, switching their loyalty, and getting them to fall from Jesus. Mary does not do this and Fatima and Lourdes are clear: we must turn to Jesus and follow His Church.

As Fides et Ratio pointed out, the abortion issue wasn't nearly so big a deal during the last approved apparitions.

Furthermore, it is a mercy to us that Mary should admonish us at all. Just because she doesn't mention a particular sin doesn't mean that she isn't a real apparition.

[Era Might]

Mother Goddess?

Our Lady didn't address the Holocaust either. I suppose the demons were hiding that too.

Our Lady doesn't have to condemn abortion. Your "hypothesis" is absurd. If someone is a true son of Mary, and believes in her apparitions, he will also believe in the Church, and nobody has been more outspoken about abortion than the Church. Abortion is the last thing Catholics are confused about.

And why would these "demons" stop at abortion? Lust is more common than abortion, yet Our Lady said at Fatima that more people go to hell for sins of the flesh than any other reason. She specified lust, not just "general sin".

Edited July 7, 2006 by Era Might

[jswranch]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1019072' date='Jul 7 2006, 06:58 AM']
And THIS IS THE TOPIC, it hit me like a ton of bricks this morning. IF, abortion is really the "Sacrament of Satan" his highest desire, his tool to ruin lives, the modern version of human sacrifice and Molech reborn...[/quote]
I am not sure where you are getting this. IMHO, the two biggest sins mentioned in the bible by the offender are (1) adam and eve eating the apple IOT be like God and (2) Judas betraying Christ. Abortion is not mentioned in the bible, though infanticide is.


[quote]CAN ANYONE provide a SPECIFIC QUOTE from ANY Marian Apparition that DIRECTLY CONDEMNS abortion? If there are I want to know, so I can correct what I think I've stumbled upon here.[/quote] Not to my knowledge. However, some apparitions seem to address the issues of the time.

[Lounge Daddy]

Why isn't it enough that The One True Church (The Catholic Church) actively teaches abortion as an abomination and a murderous sin? And this should be a primary point in this thread.

And the Blessed Mother has never disputed this position of Her Son’s Church, The Catholic Church. This should be a secondary point.

Where is the conflict? This opposing opinion all seems so silly to me.


I love Mary, I love Her Son's Roman Catholic Church

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

I just wanted to add that there was a condemned "apparition" refered to as "Our Lady of Bayside" in which "Our Lady" condemned abortion. The "message" exhibited radical traditionalism as well as a belief in the Rapture, and was condemned. They also sell rose petals supposedly blessed by Jesus.
[url="http://www.catholicdoors.com/isit/isit08.htm"]http://www.catholicdoors.com/isit/isit08.htm[/url]

[Eutychus]

So, let me get this right...

The FAKE apparitions are denouncing abortion directly.

The "REAL" apparitions are silent on it.

Otay.....

{ you might want to really think on this one...}

[Era Might]

Your whole premise is irrational. Marian apparitions lead people to the Catholic Church, to Christ, to a life of holiness and virtue. There's one thing Satan cannot do, and that is produce genuine fruit. Marian apparitions lead people to Catholicism, and by that very fact alone lead people to the culture of life and the fight against abortion (and all the other attacks against human dignity). If Satan's purpose in supposedly appearing as Our Lady is to lead people to remain silent against abortion, he's doing a pretty crummy job. In fact, there has been arguably no greater foe of abortion than Pope John Paul II, who also happened to be a great promoter of Our Lady's messages at Fatima.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

Our Lady calls us to Christ and His Church. Standing against abortion follows naturally. I do not see how not mentioning abortion means they are false. There are plenty of Biblical texts that don't mention it either.

[Eutychus]

[quote] Your whole premise is irrational. Marian apparitions lead people to the Catholic Church, to Christ, to a life of holiness and virtue. There's one thing Satan cannot do, and that is produce genuine fruit. Marian apparitions lead people to Catholicism,[/quote]

Some might question that starting premise, but then, THAT thought is not allowed now, is it?

According to the latin American Bishops conference, last year those disagreeing with YOUR starting premise was 400 per hour, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.

For those that may doubt this....and I know some will, here is the link

[quote]According to recent statistics, in a region once considered a Catholic stronghold, protestants are growing at a rate of 400 per hour, which leads demographers to predict that Latin America will be evangelical before the end of the twenty-first century. 2 Cardinal Miguel Obando y Bravo from Nicaragua, addressing the Vatican College of Cardinals in 1991 pointed out that "protestants in Latin America have grown surprisingly, from 4 million in 1967 to 30 million in 1985." On his part, Cardinal Ernesto C. Ahumada from Mexico stated that in the last 30 years "defections from the Catholic church) to other religious groups have tripled in the Dominican Republic, have increased by 500% in El Salvador and Costa Rica, and have grown by 700% in Guatemala."3 No wonder an evangelical president was recently elected in this latter country. In general, it is estimated that 20% of all Latin Americans are Protestant.[/quote]

[url="http://www.forerunner.com/forerunner/X0246_Church__State_in_Con.html"]http://www.forerunner.com/forerunner/X0246...ate_in_Con.html[/url]

[url="http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=927"]http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=927[/url]

Just to show that there are a LOT of Roman Catholics who are quite turned off by the Marianitis takeover of the church, especially evident in Latin America, and are seeking Jesus, and the Word, not the chruch, Mary, saints, and clerical overlordship of their very lives.

But of course, that really IS in the eye of every beholder, isn't it?

Best.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

Truth is not determined by the majority. Even if I take these statistics at face-value, it says nothing about Marian apparitions - which are not required to be believed by Catholics. They are considered "worthy of belief".