Do you believe the Medjigoure "apparitions" to be

[DAF]

I don't know alot about the aparitions, and frankly I'm not really interested. What would mary have to say for 20 years?

And what's this about some of the messages being kept secret? What's that about?

[XIX]

I tend to be skeptical of Medj, but I don't really know. I keep hearing that Our Lady suupposedly claims that all religions are the same, but I haven't seen any quotations of her saying that. They usualy says that Jesus loves all religions equally, which is a far far cry from saying they are all the same. Loving a religion does not inecesarily mply that you love what the religion teaches. If anything, it could have a "love your enemies" feel to it. Do you follow what I'm saying?

I know a lot of people have gone to Madjgorie and have felt the Lord in a tremendous way. While this is all great, I don't think that proves the apparitions are real. Let's just say for the sake of argument that they aren't. I would still imagine that a well-intentioned soul who plans months ahead of time and travels thousands of miles to receive the Lord is not going to go home without finding something tremendous, regardless. I don't think the Lord is going to leave such a person out to dry because "hey, the appritions aren't real here, nothing I can do."

Besides, didn't JP2 say that the faithful are not endangering their souls by going to Madjugorie?


Anyways, i'm not holding my breath over it. When it comes to Marian apparitions, I'm all about Fatima, Brown Scapular, Miraculous Medal, etc. Madjugorie's pending approval is not going to have a serious effect on my devotion to the Blessed Virgin. Oh and PS: pray that I get a Green Scapular!! :)

[corban711]

there is a problem with saying that we will wait for the Church to give a response though in this case. because the bishop who has the authority to declare the apparitions worthy of belief has repeatedly said he doesn't like what he sees there. there are issues of clergy disobedience and other problems which can be read in his statement. it is not the normal course of action for Rome to say "this apparition here is good" "this one is not". it is normal for Rome to say, it is up to the local bishop who we have given authority. and it isn't just one bishop. several of them since the apparitions started have all agreed.

i am not totally against the idea that these bishops could be wrong about the messages/apparitions themselves. that could happen. its just tough because they are surrounded by a lot of problems...very deep ones at that. in the lives of the saints you always see a great deal of humility and grace to accept the decisions of their superiors/local bishops/spiritual directors, etc. no matter how difficult. around these apparitions is a great deal of side stepping on the part of its followers and disobedience on the part of the promoters. very troublesome. if these things werent occuring, the bishop may be more inclined to say there is some good coming from this...lets take a look. i understand as well that just because there are a lot of problems does NOT mean that the seers did not in fact receive messages at some point...but the Church will never support a private apparition where there is disobedience to the Church. that is always a test that is applied.

[scardella]

All I know is that a friend of mine contributes his conversion (and his sister's and brother's) to Medjugorje, he's part of the chain of events that led to my conversion, and he's one of the holiest priests I've ever met.

If that's not of God, I don't know what is.

[Jaime]

[quote name='scardella' post='1026650' date='Jul 18 2006, 07:33 AM']
All I know is that a friend of mine contributes his conversion (and his sister's and brother's) to Medjugorje, he's part of the chain of events that led to my conversion, and he's one of the holiest priests I've ever met.

If that's not of God, I don't know what is.
[/quote]

Same story as my father

[cathoholic_anonymous]

I really do not know.

I've read the message in which (the supposed) Mary talks about other religions. It does not sound like she is calling them all equal in truth. It sounds like she is saying that sincere seekers from other faiths will not be disappointed when they die. Basically, the Catechism says the same thing. I don't see anything at odds with Catholicism in (the supposed) revelations.

However...

I don't see anything that strongly supports Catholicism either. Our local priest is a big believer in Medjugorje. A yellow flyer headed "Mary's Monthly Message" appears in the narthex of our church every four weeks. And this is what bothers me. "Mary's Monthly Message" makes Our Lady sound like a columnist for [i]Women's Own[/i] magazine. The language is saccharine-sweet and (the supposed) Our Lady rarely says anything of substance - just things like, "My dear children, I would like you to pray for the poor." The apparitions of Fatima and Lourdes has a bit more passion about them, more fire and snap. There, Mary said things that were vital to the times - things that were worth saying and worth hearing. When compared to the prophecies of Fatima, "My dear children, I would like you to pray for the poor" sounds...flat. After all, this is a basic Biblical teaching that has been emphasised and re-emphasised by countless pious saints. It is something that Catholics understand. Why would it merit a special guest appearance of Our Lady? And why does it take her twenty years to come out with such things?

I'm also perturbed that one of the alleged visionaries, when asked why she hadn't devoted her life to God as a religious, replied that although Our Lady had asked the visionaries all to become priests and nuns, they had told her that they would rather marry. I am struggling to discern my own vocation at the moment. If Our Lady herself appeared in front of me and told me what to do with myself, I would be so awed and humbled that I would rush off to do whatever she said. I certainly wouldn't inform her that on second thoughts, I'd rather get married.

I don't rule out the visions entirely. I am waiting for the Church's pronouncement. I trust the Vatican.

I'd like to add that I don't think the apparitions are demonic. They are either genuine or they are lies. I doubt that the real Our Lady would permit a demon to show up in her stead for twenty years without putting it in its place.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1026910' date='Jul 18 2006, 01:45 PM']
I really do not know.

I've read the message in which (the supposed) Mary talks about other religions. It does not sound like she is calling them all equal in truth. It sounds like she is saying that sincere seekers from other faiths will not be disappointed when they die. Basically, the Catechism says the same thing. I don't see anything at odds with Catholicism in (the supposed) revelations.[/quote]
This is somewhat problematic, to say the least. If "sincere seeking" is all that is necessary for salvation, then what is the point of Christ founding a Church?
The claim that not all are "called" to be Catholic, but that "all religions are dear to [Mary] and her Son" sounds like quite a bit of a change from Christ's command to "go and make disciples of all nations." (as well as from 2000 years of Catholic teaching).

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s=&showtopic=54413&view=findpost&p=1023922"](See my complete argument in this thread.)[/url]

(btw, I'm not denying extraordinary means of God's grace; I'm just saying it seems rather presumptious to just say that people don't need to convert and as long as they are "seeking" they are saved.)

[quote]However...

I don't see anything that strongly supports Catholicism either. Our local priest is a big believer in Medjugorje. A yellow flyer headed "Mary's Monthly Message" appears in the narthex of our church every four weeks. And this is what bothers me. "Mary's Monthly Message" makes Our Lady sound like a columnist for [i]Women's Own[/i] magazine. The language is saccharine-sweet and (the supposed) Our Lady rarely says anything of substance - just things like, "My dear children, I would like you to pray for the poor." The apparitions of Fatima and Lourdes has a bit more passion about them, more fire and snap. There, Mary said things that were vital to the times - things that were worth saying and worth hearing. When compared to the prophecies of Fatima, "My dear children, I would like you to pray for the poor" sounds...flat. After all, this is a basic Biblical teaching that has been emphasised and re-emphasised by countless pious saints. It is something that Catholics understand. Why would it merit a special guest appearance of Our Lady? And why does it take her twenty years to come out with such things?

I'm also perturbed that one of the alleged visionaries, when asked why she hadn't devoted her life to God as a religious, replied that although Our Lady had asked the visionaries all to become priests and nuns, they had told her that they would rather marry. I am struggling to discern my own vocation at the moment. If Our Lady herself appeared in front of me and told me what to do with myself, I would be so awed and humbled that I would rush off to do whatever she said. I certainly wouldn't inform her that on second thoughts, I'd rather get married.

I don't rule out the visions entirely. I am waiting for the Church's pronouncement. I trust the Vatican.

I'd like to add that I don't think the apparitions are demonic. They are either genuine or they are lies. I doubt that the real Our Lady would permit a demon to show up in her stead for twenty years without putting it in its place.[/quote]
Yeah, while I'm far from on expert on these "visions," most of what I've heard of them sounds rather banal at best. (I seem to recall one about heaven, in which everyone wore only pink and blue, and the birds and trees were really pretty - or something along those lines).

Everything about these "apparitions" seems phishy, and quite unlike the approved apparitions of Our Lady.

[Claudine]

im going there for the youth festival, I leave this coming week july 26, its pretty cool how our youth group is going.
I have heard so many miracles that have oocured there so i think i believe, i tell you all bout it when i return or while im there!

Claudine

[Ash Wednesday]

I used to believe the apparitions to be the real deal, but I can't say that I do now. I would love to believe otherwise, but the frequency, duration and banal nature of the messages do leave me more than a bit skeptical.

Edited July 19, 2006 by Ash Wednesday

[MissScripture]

Is it possible that they started out real and now they are being faked?

[cathoholic_anonymous]

Hmm...could you pretend to see Mary for twenty years if you had genuinely had a vision of her? Would she even appear to people who are capable of lying about her?

[JJMG2001]

oops I think I voted that I believe in them on accident. When I found out "Mary said" all religions are equal I grew skeptical but I recently saw what the local bishop and benedict thought about them and now I pretty certian. It's too bad the Medjigoure conference at ND is usually pretty good.

[quote name='Claudine' post='1027202' date='Jul 19 2006, 08:37 AM']
im going there for the youth festival, I leave this coming week july 26, its pretty cool how our youth group is going.
I have heard so many miracles that have oocured there so i think i believe, i tell you all bout it when i return or while im there!

Claudine
[/quote]
I think the local bishop has asked people to stop making pilgramages there.


[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1026910' date='Jul 18 2006, 03:45 PM']
I really do not know.

I've read the message in which (the supposed) Mary talks about other religions. It does not sound like she is calling them all equal in truth. It sounds like she is saying that sincere seekers from other faiths will not be disappointed when they die. Basically, the Catechism says the same thing. I don't see anything at odds with Catholicism in (the supposed) revelations.

[/quote]

Is that what she means when she supposedly said this "Locutionist Jelena Vasilij: "The Blessed Mother has said: 'Tell everyone that it is you who are divided on earth. The Moslems and the Orthodox for the same reason as Catholics, are equal before my Son and me.'"

However it just don't she Mary saying this:

Question: "Is the Blessed Mother calling all people to be Catholic?

Seer Vicka Ivankovic: "No. The Blessed Mother says all religions are dear to her and her Son." (Janice T. Connell, The Visions of the Children, The Apparitions of the Blessed Mother at Medjugorje, St. Martin's Press, August 1992)

Edited July 22, 2006 by JJMG2001

[Jaime]

She doesn't say all religion are equal. She says that all CHILDREN of various religions are equal before God.

[JJMG2001]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1028969' date='Jul 22 2006, 08:55 PM']
She doesn't say all religion are equal. She says that all CHILDREN of various religions are equal before God.
[/quote]
"Locutionist Jelena Vasilij: "The Blessed Mother has said: 'Tell everyone that it is you who are divided on earth. The Moslems and the Orthodox for the same reason as Catholics, are equal before my Son and me.'"

I don't see a mention of children here.

[Jaime]

[quote name='JJMG2001' post='1029426' date='Jul 23 2006, 09:24 AM']
"Locutionist Jelena Vasilij: "The Blessed Mother has said: 'Tell everyone that it is you who are divided on earth. The Moslems and the Orthodox for the same reason as Catholics, are equal before my Son and me.'"

I don't see a mention of children here.
[/quote]

that's also not one of the visionaries of Medjugorje. Let's keep the facts straight please

[Fides_et_Ratio]

Are they still going on... after the bishop's homily/request, I mean? I posted the article (and homily, I think) in the thread I made "Bishop Says Medjugorje Apparitions are Divisive". But, the bishop requested that, as a show of obedience, the visionaries stop with the apparitions. Has this been addressed by the visionaries at all? I keep looking for more news but haven't been able to find anything.

I think this will be very telling of their authenticity either way. If they do stop at the bishop's request, I'll have to look a bit harder into the Apparitions. If they're continuing, then my conscience says my initial skepticism was correct...

[Fides_et_Ratio]

(double post) Edited July 23, 2006 by Fides_et_Ratio

[JJMG2001]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1029429' date='Jul 23 2006, 10:27 AM']
that's also not one of the visionaries of Medjugorje. Let's keep the facts straight please
[/quote]
thank you I didn't know that

[Jaime]

[quote name='JJMG2001' post='1029648' date='Jul 23 2006, 07:17 PM']
thank you I didn't know that
[/quote]


:


No problem at all JJMG!!

(some folks are so polite!! I LOVE that!)

[Anomaly]

I'm waiting until the special on Discovery Channel proves it.