Catholics living like Atheists

[ilovechrist]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1031846' date='Jul 27 2006, 07:04 AM']
I asked a priest this question years ago, and he asked me to think about what kind of people they would be if they didn't go to church at all.
We have no accounting of the work of grace in other peoples lives. People might not act like the catholics we expect them to be, but at least they are THERE and hearing the Word of God.
That is a start.
Always work and be a good example like it all depends on you,
and always pray because it all depends on God.
[/quote]

at the same time, when i am at Mass and observing, though people might have made the one hour "sacrifice" to be there--they aren't paying attention at all to the Word of God, but rather going through all the motions and leaving as soon as they grab coffee and a donut after the priest says the final blessing.

why is this happening? i don't know. but i also know that we all have the potential to do that on a Sunday (no matter how strong you think you are in your faith), with one reason being because of how stressful living here in America has become.

i should know, for i have noticed that i myself have fallen into this habit once or twice without even realizing it until after the fact. it's a horrible feeling to know you have ignored God in concentrating on your own life...

[scardella]

Maybe I should've said "Knock the hell out of them"...

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='ilovechrist' post='1031879' date='Jul 27 2006, 10:00 AM']
at the same time, when i am at Mass and observing, though people might have made the one hour "sacrifice" to be there--they aren't paying attention at all to the Word of God, but rather going through all the motions and leaving as soon as they grab coffee and a donut after the priest says the final blessing.

why is this happening? i don't know. but i also know that we all have the potential to do that on a Sunday (no matter how strong you think you are in your faith), with one reason being because of how stressful living here in America has become.

i should know, for i have noticed that i myself have fallen into this habit once or twice without even realizing it until after the fact. it's a horrible feeling to know you have ignored God in concentrating on your own life...
[/quote]
This is nothing new. People actually pay more attention now, at least the Mass is in English. I remember when I was little people actually falling asleep at Mass.
But you cannot judge the hearts of these people, you have no clue how much attention they are actually paying, or what effect the Holy Spirit is having on their hearts.
Set a good example and let God take care of the rest of the congregation.

[Jaime]

Amen Cmom!!

This kind of lament is really saying "why can't others be as Catholic as me?" That will neither help them in their journey or help me in mine.

Cmom's got the best words here.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Justified Saint' post='1031680' date='Jul 26 2006, 09:37 PM']
As far as Buchanan, the jury is still out on that one though I tend to be suspicious of ultra-conservatives like him. However, I find it persuasive that globalization is not in the best interest of America (notwithstanding the fact that globalization is a kind of "life line" for Americanism).
[/quote]
Is there a reason you "tend to be suspicious of ultra-conservatives like him"? Or is it simply because you consider him "ultra-conservative"? I've noticed that a lot of people tend to dismiss people's ideas as "extremist" or "ultra-conservative," rather than actually engage their ideas themselves.

[quote name='the 13th papist' post='1031705' date='Jul 26 2006, 09:48 PM']
The separation of state and religion is indeed absent from the constitution. but is found in the writings of (I believe) Thomas Jefferson.[/quote]
That writing of Thomas Jefferson has no bearing on the law of this country. Only the Constitution does. We cannot base the law on the private writings of individual framers (who often had varying opinions on various matters).

[quote]America first? How about people first? I have no problem with takeing care of our own but we gotta count the cost to others and humanity in general. Nationalism is an "ism". Nationalism is the making of a nation into a god and we know what the cammandments say about that.[/quote]
Do you even have any idea what "America First" refers to?
Basically, it is the philosophy that this country should protect the interests of its own citizens, rather than be dominated by multi-national corporate interests.
This would focus on America producing its own goods whenever possible, and thus becoming more self-sufficient and protecting the jobs of American workers.
Today, we largely buy things from China and other foreign countries, and have incurred a huge trade defecit in the process. These goods are often produced in slave-labor conditions.
In the meantime, American workers are laid off, and without an American base of production, the economy is weak and vulnerable.
Corporations increasingly outsource to foreign countries to save money.

Globalism does not truly benefit "people," but mostly benefits mega-rich multi-national corporations and international beaurocracies, and helps enrich potentially hostile governments like that of China.

And it would do well to remember John Paul II's endorsement of the principle of subsidiarity, in which problems would be taken care of on the lowest possible level. Nations should first take care of their own, rather than things being controlled by multi-national bodies.

Edited July 28, 2006 by Socrates

[Justified Saint]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1032229' date='Jul 27 2006, 04:07 PM']
Is there a reason you "tend to be suspicious of ultra-conservatives like him"? Or is it simply because you consider him "ultra-conservative"? I've noticed that a lot of people tend to dismiss people's ideas as "extremist" or "ultra-conservative," rather than actually engage their ideas themselves.
[/quote]

I am naturally suspicious -- its a philosophical disposition. But yes, more "extreme" views would tend to garner more suspicion. In any case, I haven't dismissed his ideas so what most people tend to do seems irrelevant.

[Era Might]

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=55370&pid=1032866&st=0entry1032866"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...0entry1032866[/url]

[the 13th papist]

Socrates,
you bring up some good points and i agree that america should look out for the interests of americans, but that we should also look at all the aspects including global of any choice. i too would prefer that we be more self sufficient or at least have a favorable ballance of trade.

my point about thomas jefferson was to document the source of the idea or separation of church and state, not legitimize it because i was writen my thomas jefferson.

God bless,

[Lahecil]

We have to remember Jefferson said a lot of things.

[quote]I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world geniuses and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth.[/quote]

[quote]Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus.[/quote]

[quote]The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.[/quote]

[quote]But the greatest of all reformers of the depraved religion of his own country, was Jesus of Nazareth. Abstracting what is really his from the rubbish in which it is buried, easily distinguished by its lustre from the dross of his biographers, and as separable from that as the diamond from the dunghill, we have the outlines of a system of the most sublime morality which has ever fallen from the lips of man. The establishment of the innocent and genuine character of this benevolent morality, and the rescuing it from the imputation of imposture, which has resulted from artificial systems, invented by ultra-Christian sects (The immaculate conception of Jesus, his deification, the creation of the world by him, his miraculous powers, his resurrection and visible ascension, his corporeal presence in the Eucharist, the Trinity; original sin, atonement, regeneration, election, orders of the Hierarchy, etc.) is a most desirable object.[/quote]

Now...he also said the complete opposite...

[quote]God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.[/quote]

Oh my goodness! He flip flopped!

We have to remember Jefferson said a lot of things.

[quote]I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world geniuses and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth.[/quote]

[quote]Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus.[/quote]

[quote]The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.[/quote]

[quote]But the greatest of all reformers of the depraved religion of his own country, was Jesus of Nazareth. Abstracting what is really his from the rubbish in which it is buried, easily distinguished by its lustre from the dross of his biographers, and as separable from that as the diamond from the dunghill, we have the outlines of a system of the most sublime morality which has ever fallen from the lips of man. The establishment of the innocent and genuine character of this benevolent morality, and the rescuing it from the imputation of imposture, which has resulted from artificial systems, invented by ultra-Christian sects (The immaculate conception of Jesus, his deification, the creation of the world by him, his miraculous powers, his resurrection and visible ascension, his corporeal presence in the Eucharist, the Trinity; original sin, atonement, regeneration, election, orders of the Hierarchy, etc.) is a most desirable object.[/quote]

Now...he also said the complete opposite...

[quote]God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.[/quote]

Oh my goodness! He flip flopped!

[mortify]

Superficial Christianity is the largest religion in the world.

[Budge]

This isnt just a Catholic problem.

I believe unless someone is truly born again, in many cases, going to church on Sunday will be a nice social exercise and nothing more.

There are millions who are Christian in name only, who have the Christian life compartmentalized to Sunday morning.

Many people do not believe in Gods Word, I include Roman Catholicism and liberal mainline Prot churches. They see it only as "nice myths" to consider living by instead of the TRUTH.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

There are people who claim to be Catholic and do not believe in God's Word, but I hope you are not placing the whole Church into that catagory.