One Core Difference Between Christians and Catholics

[Budge]

[b]A Christian believes SCRIPTURE HAS AUTHORITY OVER THE CHURCH. [/b]All Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness

[b]A Roman Catholic is taught that ITS CHURCH HAS AUTHORITY OVER SCRIPTURE.[/b] "The manner of interpeting Scripture is ultimately subject to the judgement of the church, which exercises the divinely conferred commission and ministry of watching over and interpreting the Word of God" 119

[img]http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/bible.gif[/img]

[Anomaly]

Budge,
I'd love to see your definition of "christian".

The Catholic Church believes it has authority WITH scripture, which makes a little more logic since the Church established what 'Scripture' is and isn't.

[Eutychus]

In a nutshell...

One is Sola Scriptura

the other is

SOLA ECCLESIA

[Anomaly]

Eut,
You disappoint me.

There is not such thing as Sola Scriptura or Sola Ecclesia.

Is Scriptura w/ private interpretation of the local preacher or pastor.(and is practiced by prots and caths)

The others are Scriptura with the historical interpretation of the chruch organization. (And it's not just Catholics)

[thessalonian]

No budge the magesterium does not have authority over scripture in fact. That is not the way it works out. JP II has gone under intense pressure to allow women to be preists for instance. Many Anglican, Luther, Presbyterian communities have buckled to this because Sola Scriptura allows for man to put his mind and what he thinks scriptures says in authority over scripture. Same thing with the gay issue. Many Protestant Churches who teach Sola scriptura are buckling on this matter. The facts bear out that in fact protestantism puts men over scripture. That is why there are so many denominations out there contradicting eachother.

[Justified Saint]

Anomaly,

Sola Scriptura defintely exists -- its one of the pillars of Protestantism.

On the other hand sola ecclesia is simply a false label used by anti-catholics who possess little charity and even less intelligence.

thess,

Don't forget that all those communities you listed aren't in Budge's book of Christians either. The road to Budge's church is especially narrow with very few inside.

Edited August 9, 2006 by Justified Saint

[Guest JeffCR07]

The Church has always, does now, and will always teach that Scripture, Tradition, and Magesterium are three equal pillars of Truth, because the Holy Spirit works through each. One does not have "authority" over the other. That would be to say that the Holy Spirit has "authority" over the Holy Spirit, which is contradictory.

We put faith in all three, and thus remain internally consistent. You put faith in only one, and thus render yourself in a state of self-contradiction.

[thessalonian]

[quote]thess,

Don't forget that all those communities you listed aren't in Budge's book of Christians either. The road to Budge's church is especially narrow with very few inside.[/quote]

You mean like one? :. Doesn't matter as long as he doesn't think he is infallible. He is still asserting some point of his own reasoning over scripture. Do you think your infallible budge.

[curtins]

[quote name='JeffCR07' post='1040144' date='Aug 9 2006, 10:05 AM']
The Church has always, does now, and will always teach that Scripture, Tradition, and Magesterium are three equal pillars of Truth, because the Holy Spirit works through each. One does not have "authority" over the other. That would be to say that the Holy Spirit has "authority" over the Holy Spirit, which is contradictory.

We put faith in all three, and thus remain internally consistent. You put faith in only one, and thus render yourself in a state of self-contradiction.
[/quote]


Couldn't have said it better myself

[avemaria40]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1040095' date='Aug 9 2006, 08:47 AM']
In a nutshell...

One is Sola Scriptura

the other is

SOLA ECCLESIA
[/quote]


Sola verbum Dei, not sola ecclesia, we believe the Word of God comes from Scripture, the Church and Tradition. NOT that the Church has sole authority

[Jesuspaidtheprice]

The Bible is a development that came from many different texts and writings from the early Church. Its canonization and the belief of the infallibility of these new texts, added to the scriptures of the Hebrews was a decision by the early Church. The question is, do these infallible texts alone consist of an infallible canon - did the early Church make an infallible decision?

I've always thought of the Catholic Church as being a servant of the scriptures in its regular, daily preaching of the scriptures, and yet in its servanthood it bears the responsibility of the accurate interpretation of the scriptures. So in that, this "core difference" is not really very different. In any given Protestant Church the leaders of the Church must also decide how to appropriately interpret the scriptures and in themselves become magisterial authority figures.

So the real question then, is this Catholic Church the same Church that was able to decide what texts belonged in the new canon of scripture, does the Church contradict any of these scriptures in her current teachings, and thus is the Catholic Church the same (though grown up) Church that Peter and Paul belonged to and that Christ founded. Catholics would answer with a resounding yes, while Protestants would say even if the Church can trace its roots deeply into the early Church, they have since fallen astray.

[mortify]

If I were analyzing a painting and had a question on a certain symbolic aspect, it would make more sense for me to ask the artist than invent and stubbornly hold on to my personal interpretation. Infact, you could project thousands of various interpretations into the painting unless the painter himself were to reveal the true meaning of it.

The Church is like that painter, divinely commisioned by Christ, to paint the life of Christ and also bear the knowledge and meaning of all it paints. Throw out the painter and you are at a loss.


oh, and btw, "scripture" in that verse is referring to the OT

[Justified Saint]

[quote name='mortify' post='1040226' date='Aug 9 2006, 09:53 AM']
If I were analyzing a painting and had a question on a certain symbolic aspect, it would make more sense for me to ask the artist than invent and stubbornly hold on to my personal interpretation. Infact, you could project thousands of various interpretations into the painting unless the painter himself were to reveal the true meaning of it.

The Church is like that painter, divinely commisioned by Christ, to paint the life of Christ and also bear the knowledge and meaning of all it paints. Throw out the painter and you are at a loss.
oh, and btw, "scripture" in that verse is referring to the OT
[/quote]

That is an interesting analogy, but I think it has its difficulties too. It's not as if the Church painted the Bible (is that a mixed metaphor?)

The Church, though it possesses the fullness of truth and meaning, still walks by faith and makes interpretations which rest ultimately in faith -- in other words the Church doesn't have the privelege of sitting next to the painter and having all its questions answered. Thus talking about the "true meaning" (of the text) seem like the wrong words to describe or otherwise irrelevant, and I don't think this conflicts with the Church as infallible at all.

[Eutychus]

[quote]Sola verbum Dei, not sola ecclesia, we believe the Word of God comes from Scripture, the Church and Tradition. NOT that the Church has sole authority
[/quote]

What determines the meaning of scripture? The church. What determines what is tradition? The church. What determines new doctrines? The Church.

As I said, SOLA ECCLESIA.

[quote] unless the painter himself were to reveal the true meaning of it.

The Church is like that painter, divinely commisioned by Christ, to paint the life of Christ and also bear the knowledge and meaning of all it paints. Throw out the painter and you are at a loss.[/quote]

Silly, just silly.

The ARTIST is God, the ARTIST wrote a book. The ARTIST tells us what it means.

The Roman Church, is just the most recent critic writing on the painting. Every administration has a completely new spin.

Think that is untrue?

Just imagine Piux IX telling a practictioner of Voodoo, that Jesus can be found in Voodoo too.

EVERY Pope, prior to Vatican II, would have excommunicated the last few popes for what they have promoted, Mommy T praying to Buddha, JPII having another GOD, the Dalai Lama come an pray with him. Inviting Muslim terrorists, murderers into the Vatican and giving them praise and glory.

[b]Amazing, and you just cannot see that, can you?[/b]

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1040086' date='Aug 9 2006, 08:24 AM']
[b]A Christian believes SCRIPTURE HAS AUTHORITY OVER THE CHURCH. [/b]All Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness

[b]A Roman Catholic is taught that ITS CHURCH HAS AUTHORITY OVER SCRIPTURE.[/b] "The manner of interpeting Scripture is ultimately subject to the judgement of the church, which exercises the divinely conferred commission and ministry of watching over and interpreting the Word of God" 119[/quote]
I like the subtle message that protestants "believe" something, while Catholics are "taught" something else. Heaven forbid we'd believe what we were taught.

Just to finish the comparison (following the annoying all-caps pattern), the Holy Bible teaches that the CHURCH HAS AUTHORITY OVER SCRIPTURE.
[url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/1timothy/1timothy3.htm#v15"]1 Timothy 3:15[/url]
[url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/acts/acts8.htm#v31"]Acts 8:31[/url]

Opps. Forgot the big font size:
[size=5][b]...the CHURCH HAS AUTHORITY OVER SCRIPTURE.[/b][/size]
Man, nothing conveys a message better than a giant font!

-----------------

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1040252' date='Aug 9 2006, 01:48 PM']Just imagine Piux IX telling a practictioner of Voodoo, that Jesus can be found in Voodoo too.[/quote]Or imagine St. Paul, complimenting the religiousness of a group of Athenian pagans after seeing their shrines to false gods; and telling them that one of their gods was Jesus Christ. ([url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/acts/acts17.htm#v22"]Acts 17:22-23[/url])

Imagine.

Edited August 9, 2006 by Mateo el Feo