Is Little Black Sambo really controversial?

[Sojourner]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1042811' date='Aug 13 2006, 09:16 PM']
Once upon a time there was a little white boy, and his name was Little White Sambo.
(etc.)
[/quote]
You ignore the context in which the story was written, and the illustrations which went along with it. To make a clear judgment, you have to look at the total picture.

[quote name='passionheart' post='1042581' date='Aug 13 2006, 12:42 PM']
I think you would care if that story became the symbol the represented YOU and Your people. The point your missing and is that for me as a black woman the word was used as a racial slur. It is the symbol (and by the way it isn't just people in the American South that has embraced this stereotype)

So my friend who would feel is everything you are is filtered through symbols such as this? That means and that no matter what you do is will be perceived as less or not as good. My family is Jamaican and my father always said that we have to do things twice as hard to be respected.

My LIVED experience is that he is right. I noticed it in school that I had to prove that I wasn't a stupid. My favourite line was after babysitting for a couple who were from N. Ireland that of course I have accepted that I was a second class citizen.

My friend, I think you would care.
[/quote]
I have heard similar stories from friends of mine who are African-American. One woman I worked with a few months ago told me she deliberately chose non-ethnic-sounding names for her children so they would at least have a shot at getting job interviews and wouldn't be rejected out of hand because of their names. I also read a study recently that found that in New York City it's easier for a white man with a felony on his record to get a job than a black man with no record.

Sadly, racism is alive and well.

[hierochloe]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1042811' date='Aug 13 2006, 06:16 PM']
I know I don't care, and I'm white!
[/quote] You're white, not black. The story speaks about black sambo, not white sambo. So until you are black, you will never really know if the black sambo story is something that a black person should find offensive.

I'm white - I grew up in as a minority white kid surrounded by hispanics. Aside from my brothers and myself, my junior high had only one other white kid. If I came across a story about Willy Whitey who was fat, lazy, rich, and a downright arrogant SOB to anyone not his skin color, I don't think I would appreciate the story. That was the white stereotype in my town, the predjudice that I struggled to overcome in every job I had in high school. I would have been disappointed (to put it nicely) to have people spreading around a "white sambo" story based on such a derogatory character since it would serve no purpose other than to perpetuate that awful stereotype with which I was so often judged.

I'm sure it's not much different with the black sambo story, but I'm not black so I can only imagine. I [u]can[/u] say that I wouldn't appreciate a [u]true[/u] equivalent of a white sambo story (changing the word black to white just isn't an equivalent) and I don't think any white person would.

[avemaria40]

sadly, even up North there is a lot of prejudice as well. I've heard some of my girl friends say they would never date a black guy and that makes me sad that they would judge based on skin color. Also, one of my best friends is African American and she's really smart, also, a very sweet girl. it's sad, I met an African American man who said he always gets followed when he goes to the mall because he's black. That's not right
And the whole "you can't be Catholic if you're black" is bull. Latin America is full of Catholicism and there are no doubt people of African descent there. Same in the Caribbean. Not to mention the Catholic Faith is thriving throughout the African continent. And I know black Catholics who are members of my parish.

I've heard a lot of jokes about black people and they're not funny. They are racist and based on horrible stereotypes. I can see why the story is considered offensive

Didn't Hitler use children's books to promote Nazi ideas?

Edited August 14, 2006 by avemaria40

[Guest JeffCR07]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1042811' date='Aug 13 2006, 06:16 PM']
Once upon a time there was a little white boy, and his name was Little White Sambo.

And his mother was called White Mumbo.

And his father was called White Jumbo.

And White Mumbo made him a beautiful little Red Coat, and a pair of
beautiful little Blue Trousers.

And White Jumbo went to the Bazaar and bought him a beautiful Green Umbrella and a lovely little Pair of Purple Shoes with Crimson Soles and Crimson Linings.

And then wasn't Little White Sambo grand?

So he put on all his Fine Clothes and went out for a walk in the
Jungle.

And by and by he met a Tiger. And the Tiger said to him, "Little
White Sambo, I'm going to eat you up!"

Does anyone care when it's Little White Sambo? I know I don't care, and I'm white! it's a stupid story that has no point!
[/quote]


St. Thomas More, I think the difficulty with this form of argumentation is that it misses a very crucial aspect of the problem, namely, very, very few people feel the effects of anti-white racism in the US. Because I have never experienced people hating me and being derogatory to me because my skin is white, I find your "Little White Mumbo" a silly, humorous story. However, if I had grown up being treated differently because I was white, and if my parents had had to fight for my rights on account of our white skin, then I'm not so sure that I would find the silly story quite as silly.

Your Brother In Christ,

Jeff

[Resurrexi]

[quote] And the whole "you can't be Catholic if you're black" is bull. [/quote]

that's acutally one of the stupidest thing's i've ever heard. Hello... St Martin de Porres was black... and His Eminence Cardinal Arinze is too.

[avemaria40]

I know that too, I was adding to missionseeker's testimony of her friend getting suspended for defending that he was Catholic and black.

[toledo_jesus]

I don't believe in the modern conception of race. I don't expect blacks to be any different from whites. However, cultural history can sometimes have an effect on development. A culture that does not have the socioeconomic status necessary to secure a good education will do without, but also come to devalue an education. I think this is something of what has happened with blacks today. Of course, what do I know, I'm just some white guy who went to college and works with poor people.


Bah. Race is an illusion. I expect the same from everyone.

[quote name='JeffCR07' post='1043650' date='Aug 14 2006, 01:33 PM']
St. Thomas More, I think the difficulty with this form of argumentation is that it misses a very crucial aspect of the problem, namely, very, very few people feel the effects of anti-white racism in the US. Because I have never experienced people hating me and being derogatory to me because my skin is white, I find your "Little White Mumbo" a silly, humorous story. However, if I had grown up being treated differently because I was white, and if my parents had had to fight for my rights on account of our white skin, then I'm not so sure that I would find the silly story quite as silly.

Your Brother In Christ,

Jeff
[/quote]
with whites you gotta break it down by ethnicity.

Little Irish Jimbo's fadder bought a pint of whisky and belted his poor mudder across 'er mout', so little Irish Jimbo t'ought it wise t'be leavin' fer a traipse t'rough t'bog.

Little Polish Sambowski couldn't figure out how to screw in the light bulb, so his mother made him kielbasa and potato pancakes to take to his father at the blue-collar dead end job he was working that week.

Little German Siegbo's father had a real problem with Jews, so Little German Siegbo thought it wise to drink bier and eat bratwurst until things quieted down at the 'work camp.'

now, do we understand why little black sambo is somewhat offensive?



is this delete worthy? or does it make an actual point? I can't tell. mods, you sort it out.

Edited August 15, 2006 by toledo_jesus

[passionheart]

[quote name='missionseeker' post='1043028' date='Aug 13 2006, 10:31 PM']
One of the black guys I used to go to church with got suspended from school here because he was arguing with the teacher that he was Catholic and the teacher told him that "you can't be Catholic because you're black"[/quote]

Yup, that sounds familar. I lived that in my life as well. At Catholic school I was asked if I was Catholic or if I was Baptist.

AveMaria40 you are bang on. My parents are from Jamaica and yes, there are plenty of Catholics there are in other Caribbean. Many of the Catholics from these island country left the Catholic churches here in Canada because they weren't welcomed. They went to the Pentecostal or Evangelical churches.

In many ways, it was the discovery of the Black saints in the church that stopped my departure as well. It made me realize that God didn't think of me as less that was a human invention. It is sin.

So when I felt stung by racists comments, I would turn to these blessed saints and ask for their help. They knew how to love in face of this evil and they had it much worst than I.

Edited August 15, 2006 by passionheart

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' post='1043848' date='Aug 14 2006, 07:14 PM']
I don't believe in the modern conception of race. I don't expect blacks to be any different from whites. However, cultural history can sometimes have an effect on development. A culture that does not have the socioeconomic status necessary to secure a good education will do without, but also come to devalue an education. I think this is something of what has happened with blacks today. Of course, what do I know, I'm just some white guy who went to college and works with poor people.
Bah. Race is an illusion. I expect the same from everyone.
with whites you gotta break it down by ethnicity.

Little Irish Jimbo's fadder bought a pint of whisky and belted his poor mudder across 'er mout', so little Irish Jimbo t'ought it wise t'be leavin' fer a traipse t'rough t'bog.

Little Polish Sambowski couldn't figure out how to screw in the light bulb, so his mother made him kielbasa and potato pancakes to take to his father at the blue-collar dead end job he was working that week.

Little German Siegbo's father had a real problem with Jews, so Little German Siegbo thought it wise to drink bier and eat bratwurst until things quieted down at the 'work camp.'

now, do we understand why little black sambo is somewhat offensive?
is this delete worthy? or does it make an actual point? I can't tell. mods, you sort it out.
[/quote]
You are making a good point. like I said - teachable moments are everywhere.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' post='1043848' date='Aug 14 2006, 07:14 PM']
I don't believe in the modern conception of race. I don't expect blacks to be any different from whites. However, cultural history can sometimes have an effect on development. A culture that does not have the socioeconomic status necessary to secure a good education will do without, but also come to devalue an education. I think this is something of what has happened with blacks today. Of course, what do I know, I'm just some white guy who went to college and works with poor people.
Bah. Race is an illusion. I expect the same from everyone.
with whites you gotta break it down by ethnicity.

Little Irish Jimbo's fadder bought a pint of whisky and belted his poor mudder across 'er mout', so little Irish Jimbo t'ought it wise t'be leavin' fer a traipse t'rough t'bog.

Little Polish Sambowski couldn't figure out how to screw in the light bulb, so his mother made him kielbasa and potato pancakes to take to his father at the blue-collar dead end job he was working that week.

Little German Siegbo's father had a real problem with Jews, so Little German Siegbo thought it wise to drink bier and eat bratwurst until things quieted down at the 'work camp.'

now, do we understand why little black sambo is somewhat offensive?
is this delete worthy? or does it make an actual point? I can't tell. mods, you sort it out.
[/quote]

I agree with Cmom. I think your adaption of the story actually helps illustrate why the original is so offensive--much more so than just substituting the word "black" for "white." (The irony behind it all... I said I was 1/4 black earlier... the other 3/4 of me are german, polish, and irish. )

[missionseeker]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1043706' date='Aug 14 2006, 03:16 PM']
that's acutally one of the stupidest thing's i've ever heard. Hello... St Martin de Porres was black... and His Eminence Cardinal Arinze is too.
[/quote]


I know these people are just ignorant. The really stupid thing is that there's another teacher there who is Catholic and went to that church and all the Catholic students there were like, UH, yeah he is. but there were no others in that particular class

[Anomaly]

It always used to bug me when I would see Al Sharpton, Jessee Jackson, or Farakan complain that rascism is alive and well in the US. I've always lived in the South and have witnessed isolated prejudice against blacks, whites, asians, jews, catholics, hispanic, etc., but as a rule, it was isolated to ignorant mean spirited people.

I am utterly flabbergasted that the offensiveness of 'Sambo' has to be argued and defended. I'm embarased at my naivete and owe Al and Jesse an apology.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' post='1043882' date='Aug 14 2006, 08:14 PM']
(The irony behind it all... I said I was 1/4 black earlier... the other 3/4 of me are german, polish, and irish. )
[/quote]
woooow, so you like, 75% hate my guts. what if I told you I was a chauvinist??

[Sojourner]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' post='1044167' date='Aug 15 2006, 04:58 PM']
woooow, so you like, 75% hate my guts. what if I told you I was a chauvinist??
[/quote]
well we already knew that was true about you.

at least you're nice about your chauvinism.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' post='1044167' date='Aug 15 2006, 03:58 PM']
woooow, so you like, 75% hate my guts. what if I told you I was a chauvinist??
[/quote]

Pretty much.

Nah, its all good. I know you're just illustrating the point that everyone else has been trying to make.