Animal Cruelty

[thessalonian]

[mod]merged double thread and edited multiple posts--ice princess[/mod]

[thessalonian]

A recent story on our local news has bothered me. For most of a week there were daily stories on a man who had killed some puppies. Now apparently he didn't pick the best place to do it and there were several witnesses. But night after night the news has run the story about how this man is being hunted as an outlaw. One night at least a dozen police officers had a grove of trees surrounded. He was not there. Now don't get me wrong I am a dog lover and am not in favor of excessive cruelty to animals but when I brought up in front of my son how this seeming to me, overcoverage of this incident bothered me, he said "well how would you like to be killed". That's just the point that bothers me. Dogs are not people and it seems like society is elevating them to that point. They don't have a soul according to Aquinas. Ignatius tells us that excessive attachment to them is sinful. Yes we are to love all of God's creation and not abuse or misuse it but common. I killed a litter of kittens one time. Please don't report me. They had to go. (Of course cats are kinda of different story . Is something gone awry here? Another sign of societies inability to think rightly on such matters and waste a bunch of money and time in the process going after a dreaded dog killer?

Discuss

Thess

[Tarcisius]

I know what your talking about. What bothers me the most is when couples who choose not to have children or only a few make up for it by having all these pets that they treat better than there fellow man.

[avemaria40]

I am very much against animal cruelty and was at one point a card carrying member of a humane society. However, I know many people who would do so much for animals but have no problem with killing unborn babies That's a huge problem in society, when animals are considered humans but babies, elderly, disabled, prisoners, and the sick are considered less than human and it's considered a duty to kill them

[thessalonian]

Yes. There ya go! That's the problem. Hairdressers, manicure's, and designer jeans for fido and fifi. It's nutz.

Avemaria
But should the state police force and the national gaurd be called out on someone who killed some puppies? I am exaggerating but not by much.

Edited August 15, 2006 by thessalonian

[Anomaly]

A typical lack of perspective.

Everyone is ticked that 1,000 soldiers a year are killed in Iraq because there is debate about the validity of the reasons to topple a homocidal dictator.

As published in the American Medical Journal, in 2000, 'Actual Causes of Death in the US', [url="http://www.csdp.org/research/1238.pdf"]LINK [/url]43,000 people died in vehicle crashes, 20,000 from sexual behavior (Aids & Other diseases), and 17,000 from illicit drug use.

20 times more people in the US die each year by chosing to make love, not war. Kewl.

Edited August 15, 2006 by Anomaly

[IcePrincessKRS]

My 2 cents... so long as he wasn't cruel about it and attempted to find the puppies homes before he killed them (provided they weren't sickly or something) then I'd say its probably not sinful. As to the media coverage and massive police hunt--definately overboard. Don't they have bigger criminals to catch?

[avemaria40]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1044084' date='Aug 15 2006, 12:42 PM']
Yes. There ya go! That's the problem. Hairdressers, manicure's, and designer jeans for fido and fifi. It's nutz.

Avemaria
But should the state police force and the national gaurd be called out on someone who killed some puppies? I am exaggerating but not by much.
[/quote]

No, the punishment should fit the crime. If they were drowned (b/c they were too many and there was no one to take care of them), maybe have him do community service? If they were tortured, have him do some time. But the state police and national guard is way too much. Save them for terrorists, kidnappers, mass murderers, rapists, etc.

[Norseman82]

On the other side of the coin, cruelty to animals often leads to cruelty to humans. That is why alarms are raised when children are cruel to animals.

[quote name='Tarcisius' post='1044076' date='Aug 15 2006, 11:31 AM']
I know what your talking about. What bothers me the most is when couples who choose not to have children or only a few make up for it by having all these pets that they treat better than there fellow man.
[/quote]

That's partially our own fault for devaluing traditional families and pushing "the single vocation" and telling people that if they want something to nuture they should get a pet. I kid you not, I actually heard this a few years ago at a Theology on Tap.

[Lahecil]

Did he kill the animals himself, violently, without an attempt to find a home? If he didn't do all of that, I think he should be put away. Life is life. It shouldn't be taken without a darn good reason. What about the other things that are getting killed though? Trees are living, sure they may not be animated, but we couldn't live without them, and they're killed by the billions, for no reason.

[thessalonian]

[quote] Life is life.[/quote]

In the words of my favorite apologist, james akin, "That's nutz". Dogs are not people to. I am not against having animal cruelty laws but let's not get carried away. Animals do not have a soul and they were created for mans proper use. To abuse them is a sin but let's not put it on the same level as killing a human. It's not even close.

[Lahecil]

[quote]In the words of my favorite apologist, james akin, "That's nutz". Dogs are not people to. I am not against having animal cruelty laws but let's not get carried away. Animals do not have a soul and they were created for mans proper use. To abuse them is a sin but let's not put it on the same level as killing a human. It's not even close.[/quote]

I disagree.

[Tarcisius]

why

[Lahecil]

[quote]why[/quote]
Because I believe in all life having souls. I believe that animals and humans are equal in terms of living (albeit, not in terms of intelligence, where we dominate, and instinct, where the animals win out). And finally, I believe in the Wiccan rede, "an ye harm none, do as ye will." Though since that is an impossible rule for humans, I prefer the slightly modified, "An ye harm none, do as ye will. An ye harm some, do as ye must." That's why.

[Franimus]

[quote name='Lahecil' post='1044760' date='Aug 16 2006, 04:22 PM']
Because I believe in all life having souls. I believe that animals and humans are equal in terms of living (albeit, not in terms of intelligence, where we dominate, and instinct, where the animals win out). And finally, I believe in the Wiccan rede, "an ye harm none, do as ye will." Though since that is an impossible rule for humans, I prefer the slightly modified, "An ye harm none, do as ye will. An ye harm some, do as ye must." That's why.
[/quote]
because you're not Catholic, then...

[Mercy me]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1044099' date='Aug 15 2006, 01:13 PM']
On the other side of the coin, cruelty to animals often leads to cruelty to humans. That is why alarms are raised when children are cruel to animals.
[/quote]

Norseman is right. Animal cruelty is something common to many many murderers. This why authorities take it so seriously.

[Tarcisius]

"Because I believe in all life having souls. I believe that animals and humans are equal in terms of living (albeit, not in terms of intelligence, where we dominate, and instinct, where the animals win out). And finally, I believe in the Wiccan rede, "an ye harm none, do as ye will." Though since that is an impossible rule for humans, I prefer the slightly modified, "An ye harm none, do as ye will. An ye harm some, do as ye must." That's why.
"

oh ok, i understand what you believe about this,can you tell me why, what led you to these beliefs, your reasoning/whim/revelation, or what have you. thanks.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Lahecil' post='1044760' date='Aug 16 2006, 04:22 PM']
Because I believe in all life having souls. I believe that animals and humans are equal in terms of living (albeit, not in terms of intelligence, where we dominate, and instinct, where the animals win out). And finally, I believe in the Wiccan rede, "an ye harm none, do as ye will." Though since that is an impossible rule for humans, I prefer the slightly modified, "An ye harm none, do as ye will. An ye harm some, do as ye must." That's why.
[/quote]
Animal souls end at death, human souls last forever. Big difference.

[Lahecil]

[quote]because you're not Catholic, then...[/quote]
Yes.
[quote]oh ok, i understand what you believe about this,can you tell me why, what led you to these beliefs, your reasoning/whim/revelation, or what have you. thanks.[/quote]
I believe this because it's what I believe. There's no need to prove beliefs, that would make believing in something pointless. My reasoning, however is that all things were given life for a reason, and as I said, life is life, souls are an integral part of life for humans, so animals must be no different, sicne we are all alive. Different, yes, but still having souls. I've always believed this, even before I knew Wicca existed. (I thought Mother Earth and God were married...I still think that's cute.) Humans are just the ones with more intelligence. And yes, it was gifted to us by some Divine, but it's not like we're the only ones with a unique trait on this earth.
[quote]Animal souls end at death, human souls last forever. Big difference.[/quote]
Since I'm not dead, and I don't remember the last time I died, again, I have only my own beliefs to back me up when I disagree.

[Lil Red]

i was watching animal planet a long time ago, and the show on was 'animal rescuers' or something like that where the animal cops go and rescue abused animals out of people's homes. i was crying because it was so horrifying to watch these abused animals - then i 'heard' (it was not my own thought) a voice saying - "And what about my children that they kill by the millions every day?" (in abortion clinics).

that's the problem, people get choked up about animal cruelty and forget about the millions of children getting killed legally.