Budge Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 (edited) Are Catholics allowed to interpret Gods Word for themselves? The answer is NO... [quote]"The task of intepreting th Word of God has been entrusted solely to the magisterium of the Church that is, to the Pope and to the bishops, in communion with him.. CCC100[/quote] So why does Gods Word show us this... "....Recived the word with all readiness of mind, and[b] searched the scriptures daily, whether these things were so[/b]" Acts 17;11 Why does Paul command us to study the bible if we are not to interpret it? [b] "Study to shew thyself approved unto God: a workman needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth 2 Timothy 2:15[/b] Jesus even admonished the Jews to [b] "search the scriptures.."[/b] John 5:39 The follow verses of scripture should alarm anyone who believes they need a church to interpret the BIble for them. [b][quote] "These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and [u][i]ye need not any man teach you:[/i][/u] but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even hath taught you, ye shall abide in him" 1John 2:26-27[/quote] [/b] Who will interpret Gods Word for you, the Holy Spirit or the Magisterium? Edited August 18, 2006 by Budge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eutychus Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 (edited) Hey, if the pewbies actually START to believe that...then the Magicsteeringthem will be out of business in a nuns lunchbreak. Can't have that can we? Oh, the church that holds for itself the absolute power to DEFINE scritpure autoritatively has only done so with SEVEN verses in 2,000. Sounds to me, that the big fear is not painting themselves into a corner, that later magicmen cannot change whenever the regime in Rome changes.....does LIMBO ring a bell with anyone? [img]http://www.lazyboysreststop.com/NCCB_Reply.jpg[/img] Edited August 18, 2006 by Eutychus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Just Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Personal Interpretation has created madness..Just in case you havent noticed. 40,000 sects that split apart because of disagreements over personal interpretations...? No matter how right you think you are, your arguments against the Church built on rock disolve into nothingness. I will no longer try to debunk your arguments. I will pray the rosary for the both of you though. (for your conversions, which will happen sometime in the near future). God Bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 [quote]Personal Interpretation has created madness..Just in case you havent noticed. 40,000 sects that split apart because of disagreements over personal interpretations...? No matter how right you think you are, your arguments against the Church built on rock disolve into nothingness. I will no longer try to debunk your arguments. I will pray the rosary for the both of you though. (for your conversions, which will happen sometime in the near future). [/quote] Don't try it man. Your only wasting your time with these two jokers. Believe me, almost every member on Phatmass has tried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1046248' date='Aug 18 2006, 04:55 PM'] Are Catholics allowed to interpret Gods Word for themselves? The answer is NO... So why does Gods Word show us this... "....Recived the word with all readiness of mind, and[b] searched the scriptures daily, whether these things were so[/b]" Acts 17;11 Why does Paul command us to study the bible if we are not to interpret it? [b] "Study to shew thyself approved unto God: a workman needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth 2 Timothy 2:15[/b] Jesus even admonished the Jews to [b] "search the scriptures.."[/b] John 5:39 The follow verses of scripture should alarm anyone who believes they need a church to interpret the BIble for them. [b] [/b] Who will interpret Gods Word for you, the Holy Spirit or the Magisterium? [/quote] Silly question that, since the Magisterium is guided BY the Holy Spirit. The church has only definitely interpreted a few passages in the bible, usually the ones the protestants and other confused people get wrong. You keep forgetting the order of events : Church first, Book second. Remember the Church chose the books in the NT, so she obviously picked those testaments that agreed with the faith of the early Church Fathers, and Apostles/ Evangelists. By the way I have been reading the bible for the last 40 years, how about you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 But have you been reading the [i]real[/i] Bible? Or have you been reading the protestant New American and New Jerusalem Bibles? The only Catholic English Bibles are the Douay-Rheims and the Confraternity Version and the New Reviesed Standerd Version, Catholic Edition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAF Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 (edited) [quote]Are Catholics allowed to interpret Gods Word for themselves? The answer is NO...[/quote] You say it like it's a bad thing. It really isn't even an issue, because Catholics don't assume the right or the privelage of interpreting sacred scripture on a personal level (definitively and doctrinally speaking, of course). Catholics may interpret to their heart's content-so long as their interpretations don't stray from Catholic teaching. The Church reserves the right to the final word on matters of interpreting scripture, it's as simple as that. Bibles aren't chained to ambos away from the laity. One would think that in 2,000 years (or the couple that the Catechism has been out) there would be some massive upheaval of the Faithful. I mean, our Protestant borhters understand our Faith better than us! See how clearly they understand the Catechism!? Fascinating! My eyes are now opened to my foolishness. Also, if we went your route, why isn't our personal interpretation that it's the Church's responsibility to interpret not legitimate? All of us can interpret all right, so long as we agree with how you interpreted it. Edited August 19, 2006 by DAF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 [quote name='Eutychus' post='1046311' date='Aug 18 2006, 06:44 PM'] Hey, if the pewbies actually START to believe that...then the Magicsteeringthem will be out of business in a nuns lunchbreak. Can't have that can we? Oh, the church that holds for itself the absolute power to DEFINE scritpure autoritatively has only done so with SEVEN verses in 2,000. Sounds to me, that the big fear is not painting themselves into a corner, that later magicmen cannot change whenever the regime in Rome changes.....does LIMBO ring a bell with anyone? [img]http://www.lazyboysreststop.com/NCCB_Reply.jpg[/img] [/quote] we've been through that already. every single doctrine of the Catholic Church is an interpretation of the entire Bible as a whole; the Church does not make it the practice to clarify or limit the precise meaning of each verse. The Catechism of the Catholic Church is a very inter-connected book and taking one verse out of context (just like in the Bible) will not get you anywhere. The Magisterium alone can interpret doctrine from scripture... and has done so with all the doctrines and dogmas it has taught throughout the course of its entire history. Laymen are urged to read scripture and apply it to their own lives, to hear scripture at mass and apply it to their own lives, to study scripture and understand scripture, and to understand it as it is, as a whole, interpretted by the Church. The Holy Spirit cannot be divided against itself. But there are at least (of course there are more) two protestants in the world today who believe that the Holy Spirit has guided them to two completely different doctrines through the Holy Scriptures and there is no authority to back up either one. God knows we are social beings, and if left to interpret scripture individually our fallen and clouded minds will make us think it says what we want it to say. The early Christians did not have modern american individualism; they understood that what was meant by the Apostles and what was meant by the men they instituted to lead their chrisitan communities was what God wanted them to know; and that the things they though things meant were more seceptable to their individual demons and prejudices. I really don't expect any sort of polite dialogue here... I haven't seen it from you two anywhere else on this board... but I just wanted to reiterate everything we've gone through that you have not thouroughly responded to (with logic, not emotional appeals that always beg the question). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 [quote name='StThomasMore' post='1046363' date='Aug 18 2006, 09:26 PM'] But have you been reading the [i]real[/i] Bible? Or have you been reading the protestant New American and New Jerusalem Bibles? The only Catholic English Bibles are the Douay-Rheims and the Confraternity Version and the New Reviesed Standerd Version, Catholic Edition. [/quote] Silly question if you think about it STM. If I have been reading the Bible for 40 years, the NAB didn't even exist then. I have read the entire Douay Rheims twice.I also read the NEB twice [which is my personal favorite], all the Navarre that I have, St Ignatius series that I have, and most of the NAB [ which is NOT protestant], and all the KJV. I also own the Jerusalem, Good News translation etc and I own [scandalous!] the Mormon book, the Other Bible[ all the rejected books of both Testaments] and various other things I am [i]sure [/i] you would not approve of. The NEB has the best language, the St Ignatius the best footnotes, and the Navarre the most spiritual thoughts to ponder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groo the Wanderer Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 2 Peter 1:20,21 - Know this first of all, that [b]there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation[/b], for no prophecy ever through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God. Pretty plain,simple, concise, and to the point eh Budgie? Oh yes - a reminder...'prophecy' was not used to mean mumbo-jumbo fortune telling and divination. To the people of the day, 'a prophecy' meant 'a teaching or a revelation or an exhortation.' So then if personal interpretation is out, then who or what can be entrusted to a complete and correct interpretation of the scriptures? Let us look and see who the Bible itself is the foundation of truth, for "the truth will set you free"... 1 Timothy 3:15 - But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is [b]the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.[/b] Hmmm....the church is the pillar and foundation of truth, not the Bible, according to the Bible's own direction. A pillar hold up the truth...the foundation supports the truth. Some Protestant translations use the word 'bulwark' instead of foundation. It's a good word - a bulwark is a defense, so the Church would also be the defender of the truth. Ah well...you probably won't listen to this logic either. Good St. Peter even wrote of you: 2 Peter 3:16 - ...In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures. We will indeed pray for you, poor Budgie.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAF Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 I heard that the St. Ignatius is rather unwieldy, is that true? I enjoy the NIV, though about all I have around here is the NAB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missionseeker Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 [quote name='DAF' post='1046430' date='Aug 18 2006, 09:50 PM'] I heard that the St. Ignatius is rather unwieldy, is that true? I enjoy the NIV, though about all I have around here is the NAB. [/quote] The St. Ignatius is pretty good. Nothing funny going on there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 The St Ignatius comes in little paperbacks, one book at a time. If you want background they are the ones to get. The Navarre series are huge books, sort of the size of dictionaries. They are expensive but cover broad theological concepts very well. I think they balance each other well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAF Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 [quote name='missionseeker' post='1046435' date='Aug 18 2006, 08:56 PM'] The St. Ignatius is pretty good. Nothing funny going on there. [/quote] I didn't necessarily mean unwieldy doctrinally or scripturally speaking, I've just heard that the language is a mouthful and there's complaints about the print or something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercy me Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Budge, if you are going to quote something please have the decency to get it right! When you misquote and pick and choose words, it is possible to make something say something completely different from the true meaning. This is what the Catechism actually says: [quote]The task of interpreting the Word of God [b]authentically[/b] has been entrusted solely to the Magisterium of the Church, that is, to the Pope and the bishops in communion with him.[/quote] The word that you chose to leave out is the to the reason there is so much division within Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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