Just something interesting.

[Mitchell_b55]

Very simply, evil is the lack of positive good, as someone said above. It isn't a contrary, or an equal, it is a lack thereof. Darkness is not contrary to light, but is the lack of light. Heat is not contrary to cold, but is the lack of the cold. Now understand me when I say contrary, I speak of two things that are equal in their properties. God could not exist in infinite goodness, if evil was contrarily infinite, but really it is not a contrary at all, but a lack of good. I'm not sure if my two cents helped any, and I didn't get to read the whole discussion. First, day of school and boring study hall and all, but that is the fact. As for budge, he isn't contrarily equal in his rebellion against authority, he simply lacks obedience. As for error, it is the lack of truth. There is only one thing, and then the lack of that thing.

[rkwright]

[quote name='WillT' post='1051996' date='Aug 28 2006, 01:46 AM']
I disagree. When you walk past said rock at 3:00 PM on August 27th, 2006 and you choose not to pick it up you have indeed lost potentiality. Namely you have lost the potentiality to pick up said rock at 3:00 PM on August 27th, 2006 as this exact moment will never again be present! It also has a substantial effect upon both you and the rock. To imagine this, first let's give the rock a name. I'll call it "Bob the rock". Had you picked up "Bob the rock", you would be "man with Bob the rock" as it stands however, you are "man without Bob the rock". This is a substantial difference in my opinion because it changes your potentiality. If you pick up "Bob the rock", you no longer have the pontentiality to pick up "Bob the rock" at 3:00 PM on August 27th, 2006 as you have actualized your pontential, destroying it by virtue of the very definitiopn of potentiality. You also now have many new potentialities concerning "Bob the rock". For example you have the added pontentiality of throwing "Bob the rock" at my head. If I have misunderstood your point please explain it again for me.
[/quote]

Still while in the past you may have lost the potential to lift the rock, you still have the potential to lift the rock at some point in the future.

I would really suggest reading part of the thread I posted above. The answer to the question 'Could God create a rock too heavy to lift?' is no.

From CAM42 in the other thread
[quote]Hey guys......

The reason that the answer is no, is because the first premise is a fallacy.

The question is nonsensical.

One of the things about our language is that we can say things that don't make sense. This doesn't call into question the omnipotence or omniscience of God, but rather the limitations of our knowledge of God.

It is on the same plane as saying, "Can God make a 4 sided triangle?" or "Can God make a square circle?"

The premise is flawed. The conclusion cannot follow, it is a logical impossiblity.[/quote]

I thought I'd throw in another reply I have heard to this question....

"Could God create a rock so heavy he couldn't lift it?"

Well sure... if you assume that he can do the impossible by creating the rock too heavy for him to lift, then why not assume he can do the impossible one more time and lift it!

[MIKolbe]

God cannot make a 4 sided triangle, a sqaured circle, or a rock bigger than He can lift for one reason.

the above are lies.

God.
Cannot.
Lie.

[bball33]

[quote name='MIkolbe' post='1052187' date='Aug 28 2006, 03:54 PM']
God cannot make a 4 sided triangle, a sqaured circle, or a rock bigger than He can lift for one reason.

the above are lies.

God.
Cannot.
Lie.
[/quote]

Lol. I have to say this, though: God controls all reality. We just view that reality with our own perception. God can do whatever He wants, because if He says so, triangles can become 4-sided, and circles can become square. However, it's all a moot point, but I just thought it was funny. Now, the rock bigger than He can lift-that's interesting, and too deep for my brain today, lol.

Edited August 29, 2006 by michaelismycn

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='michaelismycn' post='1052807' date='Aug 29 2006, 10:17 AM']
Lol. I have to say this, though: God controls all reality. We just view that reality with our own perception. God can do whatever He wants, because if He says so, triangles can become 4-sided, and circles can become square. However, it's all a moot point, but I just thought it was funny. Now, the rock bigger than He can lift-that's interesting, and too deep for my brain today, lol.
[/quote]


God can only do whatever he wants, insomuchas it is true. God can't sin. though, i doubt he would 'want' to sin.

a 4 sided triangle is a square. a triangle is not a square, any attempts to say they are or could be equal is a lie. God cannot lie. to lie is to sin. God cannot sin.

reality is subjective.
truth is objective.

[uruviel]

yes, all those are contradictions of terms and reality. To us, we are bound by those terms. Is God? Is God inable to contradict reality? Is God bound by the rules of reality?
I would not say God is lying. God is incapable of lying, yes, very true, but to say that to make a triangle and a square exist together in the same being is a total LIE, you could also be saying that the Trinity is a total lie. Be careful. The Blessed trinity is far beyond our comprehension yet we believe it because it is a supernatural mystery. If God were to reveal to us that a triangle can exist as a square at the same time we would have no other choice than to believe Him. I take that back, God gives us our free will but in not believing him we are denying church teaching and Christ. To say God cannot contradict reality is saying God cannot exist with 3 persons in the same divine nature.

[Aloysius]

no one said that God could not make something be both, at the same time, a triangle and a sqare. God could certainly do that.

what He could not do is make a "triangle" which is four sided.

human beings invented the words 'triangle' and 'square'. they are what we name them. if God made a four-sided object, we would call it a square. if God made a three sided object, we would call it a triangle. God cannot make a four sided object that we would rightly call a 'triangle'. thus, God cannot make a four sided triangle.

perhaps God could make something which was at the same time a square and a triangle, and we could not comprehend it, but He could not make a four-sided triangle because a four-sided triangle is not a triangle, it is a square.

[uruviel]

hehe... ok I get it. It is because of our language that it is impossible for God to do that. Got it. But I still wouldn't call it a 'lie'. That's not the reason God 'can't' do it. it's not becuase he'd be lying.

[WillT]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' post='1052047' date='Aug 28 2006, 08:02 AM']
Let us not forget that God created time, and as such is not bound by time. If God so chooses at 4pm, from our frame of reference, to pick up Bob the Rock at 3pm, from our frame of reference, he most certainly can and could do so.

For God, time is irrelevant. Remembering this helps our heads to not hurt so much when we try to comprehend the fact that God has no beginning and has no end.

To impose ANY limits on God, including that of the flow of time is futile.
[/quote]


[quote name='rkwright' post='1052100' date='Aug 28 2006, 10:21 AM']
Still while in the past you may have lost the potential to lift the rock, you still have the potential to lift the rock at some point in the future.

I would really suggest reading part of the thread I posted above. The answer to the question 'Could God create a rock too heavy to lift?' is no.

From CAM42 in the other thread
I thought I'd throw in another reply I have heard to this question....

"Could God create a rock so heavy he couldn't lift it?"

Well sure... if you assume that he can do the impossible by creating the rock too heavy for him to lift, then why not assume he can do the impossible one more time and lift it!
[/quote]

Well, it seems like I should have clarified my position. I know the the answer is "no" (in fact I read the whole earlier thread the first time it was active), I was just arguing from a human perspective, not God's. I wasn't trying to place God under the limits of time, either, but again humans are under time limitations.



[quote name='uruviel' post='1053053' date='Aug 29 2006, 04:51 PM']
yes, all those are contradictions of terms and reality. To us, we are bound by those terms. Is God? Is God inable to contradict reality? Is God bound by the rules of reality?
[/quote]

OK, now I'm really confused. I thought you said earlier that God would not contradict reality, but now you're saying He's not bound by reality? Can you please clarify your thoughts for me? I have a cold and I'm probably not following you.

[Aloysius]

God is reality. God contradicting reality is like God contradicting God: IMPOSIBLE I SAY!

[uruviel]

[quote name='WillT' post='1053196' date='Aug 29 2006, 08:14 PM']
Well, it seems like I should have clarified my position. I know the the answer is "no" (in fact I read the whole earlier thread the first time it was active), I was just arguing from a human perspective, not God's. I wasn't trying to place God under the limits of time, either, but again humans are under time limitations.
OK, now I'm really confused. I thought you said earlier that God would not contradict reality, but now you're saying He's not bound by reality? Can you please clarify your thoughts for me? I have a cold and I'm probably not following you.
[/quote]

Ok, so I get what your saying. Your right. I'm so sorry for doing this allot, I always do this. Early in the conversation I will have one point, and then I will, later, say something different. It's because my opinons can sometimes change, making the first opinion very weak, and now that I've made my mind up this is my final opinion. The thing is I just fail to mention when I DO 'change my mind' .


[quote name='Aloysius' post='1053205' date='Aug 29 2006, 08:33 PM']
God is reality. God contradicting reality is like God contradicting God: IMPOSIBLE I SAY!
[/quote]

ok, so not REALITY . poor choice of words on my part. God is reality, that IS like God contradicting Himself. What I'm saying is not nessacarily 'reality' I don't know what you call it. But God can make an object with 3 corners have 5 or 6 or 7 corners at the same time. Like the Blessed Trinity. lol. The Blessed Trinity, you could say, contradicts our sense of reality. We are weak & limited and obviously can't understand the mystery of the trinity. Same as if God did the corners thing we couldn't understand it. So, do I call that reality? I don't know.

[XIX]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1053095' date='Aug 29 2006, 05:19 PM']
no one said that God could not make something be both, at the same time, a triangle and a sqare. God could certainly do that.
[/quote]
Could God make a typo?

[uruviel]

Good question. Thank you for pointing out his error for that matter. I doubt it needed attention drawn to it.

If you can only read english spelled with typo's then if God is speaking to you through letters then He would spell with typo's.

Edited August 30, 2006 by uruviel

[WillT]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1053205' date='Aug 29 2006, 07:33 PM']
God is reality. God contradicting reality is like God contradicting God: IMPOSIBLE I SAY!
[/quote]
Agreed!

[quote name='uruviel' post='1053227' date='Aug 29 2006, 08:13 PM']
Ok, so I get what your saying. Your right. I'm so sorry for doing this allot, I always do this. Early in the conversation I will have one point, and then I will, later, say something different. It's because my opinons can sometimes change, making the first opinion very weak, and now that I've made my mind up this is my final opinion. The thing is I just fail to mention when I DO 'change my mind' . [/quote]
No problem.

[quote name='uruviel' post='1053227' date='Aug 29 2006, 08:13 PM']ok, so not REALITY . poor choice of words on my part. God is reality, that IS like God contradicting Himself. What I'm saying is not nessacarily 'reality' I don't know what you call it. But God can make an object with 3 corners have 5 or 6 or 7 corners at the same time. Like the Blessed Trinity. lol. The Blessed Trinity, you could say, contradicts our sense of reality. We are weak & limited and obviously can't understand the mystery of the trinity. Same as if God did the corners thing we couldn't understand it. So, do I call that reality? I don't know.
[/quote]

Interesting. I think this goes back to my earlier question about how you are defining reality. If your definition of reality is "human reality" then all the things I mentioned earlier (Virgin Birth etc.) would be "outside of reality." If, however, your definition of reaality is "God's reality" then all of those things are in fact "within reality!" This by itself would be a paradox because something can't be both "within reality" and "outside of reality" at the same time and I think that's the confusion you're feeling here of what to call "reality".

I would say that "God's reality" is the true reality and that "human reality" is only our attempt to make sense of things. Virgin births are not within human reality because it doesn't make sense to us, we can't understand it. God, however, understands it perfectly and has blessed us with his revelations concerning the nature of the Virgin Birth of Christ. In other words, no knowlidge we have about about the Virgin Birth is first hand. We didn't "figure it out", God revealed it to us. In a similar way, God reveals how three divine persons can be one God and all the other mysteries of our faith.
[quote name='XIX' post='1053236' date='Aug 29 2006, 08:50 PM']
Could God make a typo?
[/quote]
No. A typo, by definition, is a mistake. An all perfect being would no longer be all perfect if He made a typo. Also, if God were to purposefully make a typo, it would NOT be a typo because He did it on purpose, which violates the definition of typo! Furthermore, a typo is not an act of the will. When someone makes a typo, they will to use the correct spelling, but imperfectly act upon that will by typing something other than what they willed to type.

[uruviel]

[quote]I would say that "God's reality" is the true reality and that "human reality" is only our attempt to make sense of things. Virgin births are not within human reality because it doesn't make sense to us, we can't understand it. God, however, understands it perfectly and has blessed us with his revelations concerning the nature of the Virgin Birth of Christ. In other words, no knowlidge we have about about the Virgin Birth is first hand. We didn't "figure it out", God revealed it to us. In a similar way, God reveals how three divine persons can be one God and all the other mysteries of our faith.[/quote]

ok. I get it. I was meaning, Our reality. Since ours is so limited, and so weak.

and the typo thing, is a typo a mistake, or is a typo just spelling something wrong? According to the english language.