Why can't I find a good man?

[XIX]

I haven't "had a beef" with anyone since the 90's. :

[quote]Datable to whose standards? Maybe not to yours but does that make them not good? I would say no. (Sorry for the multiple negative but its late and I'm tired)

I've dated women who were not good for me. I've dated women who laid waste to my life. I've had women who wanted to date me but I had no interest in dating them. Does that make them bad? Nope. They are still deserving of love. Maybe they won't get it from me but it doesn't mean they don't deserve it. I don't doubt that they will all be "good" for someone.[/quote]
See you really hit a deadend with some people when you stuff words into their mouths. I never once brought up the issue of whether these women were "good" or "bad." No one even inferred that some women were bad women who don't deserve love. (double negative) Yet you respond as if that's exactly what we said...I believe this is what people refer to as strawman arguments.

And the original point stands--some people just can't get a break. Some people only meet women that are shallow or fake Catholics or self-centered or what have you. Just because you have dated people who don't fall under these categories, does not mean that others are in the same boat as you.

[Jaime]

[quote name='XIX' post='1268892' date='May 8 2007, 11:58 PM']I haven't "had a beef" with anyone since the 90's. :
See you really hit a deadend with some people when you stuff words into their mouths. I never once brought up the issue of whether these women were "good" or "bad." No one even inferred that some women were bad women who don't deserve love. (double negative) Yet you respond as if that's exactly what we said...I believe this is what people refer to as strawman arguments.[/quote]

I'm not stuffing words in your mouth they are your own words

[quote]QUOTE(XIX @ May 8 2007, 11:31 PM) *
I beg to differ. Some people don't meet good women at all.[/quote]

your words

[XIX]

Touche.

I apologize.

[Jaime]

[quote name='XIX' post='1268902' date='May 9 2007, 12:04 AM']Touche.

I apologize.[/quote]

No worries

[Norseman82]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1268885' date='May 9 2007, 01:54 AM']you gonna explain how my stance can be translated into "obviously he votes prochoice"?[/quote]

I'm calling out all those people who claim to be Catholic yet hypocritically have a "life's unfair, tough luck" attitude
and in doing so renege on all this social justice talk that we keep hearing about. Social justice is not just throwing
money at social programs like a pro-abortion Democrat, it begins with our personal attitudes, and a "life's unfair, tough luck" attitude is incompatible with that. That should be obvious. Now, if you excuse me, I need to sign off before any more of the light in this room bends into the computer.

[Jaime]

Equivocating someone's dating woes to the social justice issues in the world is

Well its asinine

I believe XIX was looking for an example of a strawman argument! (see above!)

[johnnydigit]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1268804' date='May 8 2007, 11:18 PM']happiness can't be centered on something external, or someone external. My happiness has to be based on God, who's not going to change, and on my relationship with him. Pursuit of happiness -- that really has to be pursuit of God. Because if I'm pursuing anything else, I will surely end up unfulfilled.

This is probably too lecture-y ... but it's a lesson God's been driving home to me all this year, and it's really been changing the way I look at a lot of stuff in my life, even beyond dating etc.[/quote]

that is profoundly significant to me too. in other words, God doesn't promise to change external things in your life, but He does promise to change your perspective. perspective is what can make your world hell, or make it heaven. since i know i can't make the sucky things and people go away, i look to God to draw the good out of them, and i am genuinely happy.

in the same way, we said earlier that it's not about finding the perfect person, it's about perfecting yourself. i would think that first finding a decent Catholic that you get along with is first and foremost. then seeing if they would be a good parent. finally, if you can love them for the rest of your life. with God, these all become easier and easier. i.e. with God you can genuinely love even the worst person in someone else's eyes. perspective.

i used to think it was sort of "settling" for something lesser. but like Jack Black said in Shallow Hal, if you met your dream girl (Wonder Woman), but the world thought she was repulsive, would it matter? no!
so God helps you to see the beauty in all. then you just find one who can be a good parent and spouse. then if (more like when) you find little faults that don't really pertain to parenting or fidelity, just lift them up to God.

Socrates, so i dunno. maybe you did get a series of really unfortunate results. or was it somewhat in part you? in either case, it would be beneficial to seek the love of God to fulfill all your needs before seeking a woman to fulfill them, because she just won't be able to. only God can fulfill you fully, then a mate is a bonus!

hope that makes some kind of sense..

[Sojourner]

I agree with much of what you write here -- but "just lift it up to God" makes it sound as though it's easy to deal with other peoples' faults, when it is anything but. The introduction of God and of real, self-sacrificing, fear-casting-out love into the equation ... that makes these choices really hard. It's because there suddenly [i]are[/i] choices, where before there were not. Without that kind of love, there is no need to choose to see past someone's faults. You can dismiss them from your life, wash your hands of them, and go on as if they never existed. But God requires more of us -- a death of self, a laying down of my own desires and wishes in submission to God's will for my life, and out of love for the other. Not the mushy, butterflies-in-the-stomach kind of love, but the real self-sacrificing kind where there is no room for fear.

This is true even outside the romantic relationship realm ... right now I have a person in my life who I am tempted to rip to shreds because of actions she's taken which have really hurt me. And I would be well within my rights to do so. The little devil perched on my left shoulder urges me to do it daily, but the angel on the other side reminds me I am called to make the harder choice to love the unlovely. Without faith, without God, that choice would be easy as pie. Thankfully he does provide grace ... otherwise she'd be in real trouble.

Edited May 9, 2007 by Terra Firma

[Luthien]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1269022' date='May 9 2007, 11:31 AM']I agree with much of what you write here -- but "just lift it up to God" makes it sound as though it's easy to deal with other peoples' faults, when it is anything but. The introduction of God and of real, self-sacrificing, fear-casting-out love into the equation ... that makes these choices really hard. It's because there suddenly [i]are[/i] choices, where before there were not. Without that kind of love, there is no need to choose to see past someone's faults. You can dismiss them from your life, wash your hands of them, and go on as if they never existed. But God requires more of us -- a death of self, a laying down of my own desires and wishes in submission to God's will for my life, and out of love for the other. Not the mushy, butterflies-in-the-stomach kind of love, but the real self-sacrificing kind where there is no room for fear.[/quote]


Awesome post.

I won't even try to add to the "conversation", because I couldn't possibly say anything that would be taken to heart. I will pray that everyone finds what they are looking for.

[rachael]

[Luthien]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1268373' date='May 8 2007, 09:54 PM']Sadly ladies, he was the last good man. The rest of us stink[/quote]


Aww I didn't say that did I?

[johnnydigit]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1269022' date='May 9 2007, 07:31 AM']I agree with much of what you write here -- but "just lift it up to God" makes it sound as though it's easy to deal with other peoples' faults, when it is anything but. The introduction of God and of real, self-sacrificing, fear-casting-out love into the equation ... that makes these choices really hard. It's because there suddenly [i]are[/i] choices, where before there were not. Without that kind of love, there is no need to choose to see past someone's faults. You can dismiss them from your life, wash your hands of them, and go on as if they never existed. But God requires more of us -- a death of self, a laying down of my own desires and wishes in submission to God's will for my life, and out of love for the other. Not the mushy, butterflies-in-the-stomach kind of love, but the real self-sacrificing kind where there is no room for fear.[/quote]

Saints make it seem pretty easy to deal with : so how can we heathens reach anywhere near such a level? for one, prayer. lots of it. two, make use of the Sacraments, frequently. three, add more prayer than the first one. PRAY. PRAY TOGETHER WITH HER/HIM!

so ya, PRAY. learn prayers. do them. do them all the time and throughout your work and day. does not the Bible tell us to pray unceasingly?

[b][size=3]prayer is a key to the heart of Jesus. prayer is a key to God[/size][/b]. i would think prayer can help unlock her/his/your heart, too.

i think i might be a big advocate of prayer..

[Sojourner]

[quote name='johnnydigit' post='1269465' date='May 9 2007, 04:57 PM']Saints make it seem pretty easy to deal with : so how can we heathens reach anywhere near such a level? for one, prayer. lots of it. two, make use of the Sacraments, frequently. three, add more prayer than the first one. PRAY. PRAY TOGETHER WITH HER/HIM!

so ya, PRAY. learn prayers. do them. do them all the time and throughout your work and day. does not the Bible tell us to pray unceasingly?

[b][size=3]prayer is a key to the heart of Jesus. prayer is a key to God[/size][/b]. i would think prayer can help unlock her/his/your heart, too.

i think i might be a big advocate of prayer..[/quote]
Ha! I'm no saint, not even close. My siggy used to be, "She could never be a saint, but she thought maybe she could be a martyr if they killed her quick." So, so true.

Prayer is pretty amazing ... although sometimes it's just not possible to pray with the person you're having issues with, for whatever reason. But I find that it changes me and my perspective, and keeps me cognizant of the whole person, keeping faults in context and helping me to see the true beauty of the individual.

[Norseman82]

hot stuff,

I'm going to make this as simple as possible.

In Acts, when the women who spoke Greek complained about their beef, the apostles did not call them whiners.

So why do YOU call people who have legitimate beefs whiners when the apostles did not?

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1268376' date='May 8 2007, 07:57 PM']I would HATE to see PM become a place centered around finding "true love." I like it the way it is ... a place focused on learning about the Catholic faith and hanging out.[/quote]

And pizza wagers, right?