Why can't I find a good man?

[Jaime]

Equivocating someone's dating woes to the social justice issues in the world is

Well its asinine

I believe XIX was looking for an example of a strawman argument! (see above!)

[johnnydigit]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1268804' date='May 8 2007, 11:18 PM']happiness can't be centered on something external, or someone external. My happiness has to be based on God, who's not going to change, and on my relationship with him. Pursuit of happiness -- that really has to be pursuit of God. Because if I'm pursuing anything else, I will surely end up unfulfilled.

This is probably too lecture-y ... but it's a lesson God's been driving home to me all this year, and it's really been changing the way I look at a lot of stuff in my life, even beyond dating etc.[/quote]

that is profoundly significant to me too. in other words, God doesn't promise to change external things in your life, but He does promise to change your perspective. perspective is what can make your world hell, or make it heaven. since i know i can't make the sucky things and people go away, i look to God to draw the good out of them, and i am genuinely happy.

in the same way, we said earlier that it's not about finding the perfect person, it's about perfecting yourself. i would think that first finding a decent Catholic that you get along with is first and foremost. then seeing if they would be a good parent. finally, if you can love them for the rest of your life. with God, these all become easier and easier. i.e. with God you can genuinely love even the worst person in someone else's eyes. perspective.

i used to think it was sort of "settling" for something lesser. but like Jack Black said in Shallow Hal, if you met your dream girl (Wonder Woman), but the world thought she was repulsive, would it matter? no!
so God helps you to see the beauty in all. then you just find one who can be a good parent and spouse. then if (more like when) you find little faults that don't really pertain to parenting or fidelity, just lift them up to God.

Socrates, so i dunno. maybe you did get a series of really unfortunate results. or was it somewhat in part you? in either case, it would be beneficial to seek the love of God to fulfill all your needs before seeking a woman to fulfill them, because she just won't be able to. only God can fulfill you fully, then a mate is a bonus!

hope that makes some kind of sense..

[Sojourner]

I agree with much of what you write here -- but "just lift it up to God" makes it sound as though it's easy to deal with other peoples' faults, when it is anything but. The introduction of God and of real, self-sacrificing, fear-casting-out love into the equation ... that makes these choices really hard. It's because there suddenly [i]are[/i] choices, where before there were not. Without that kind of love, there is no need to choose to see past someone's faults. You can dismiss them from your life, wash your hands of them, and go on as if they never existed. But God requires more of us -- a death of self, a laying down of my own desires and wishes in submission to God's will for my life, and out of love for the other. Not the mushy, butterflies-in-the-stomach kind of love, but the real self-sacrificing kind where there is no room for fear.

This is true even outside the romantic relationship realm ... right now I have a person in my life who I am tempted to rip to shreds because of actions she's taken which have really hurt me. And I would be well within my rights to do so. The little devil perched on my left shoulder urges me to do it daily, but the angel on the other side reminds me I am called to make the harder choice to love the unlovely. Without faith, without God, that choice would be easy as pie. Thankfully he does provide grace ... otherwise she'd be in real trouble.

Edited May 9, 2007 by Terra Firma

[Luthien]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1269022' date='May 9 2007, 11:31 AM']I agree with much of what you write here -- but "just lift it up to God" makes it sound as though it's easy to deal with other peoples' faults, when it is anything but. The introduction of God and of real, self-sacrificing, fear-casting-out love into the equation ... that makes these choices really hard. It's because there suddenly [i]are[/i] choices, where before there were not. Without that kind of love, there is no need to choose to see past someone's faults. You can dismiss them from your life, wash your hands of them, and go on as if they never existed. But God requires more of us -- a death of self, a laying down of my own desires and wishes in submission to God's will for my life, and out of love for the other. Not the mushy, butterflies-in-the-stomach kind of love, but the real self-sacrificing kind where there is no room for fear.[/quote]


Awesome post.

I won't even try to add to the "conversation", because I couldn't possibly say anything that would be taken to heart. I will pray that everyone finds what they are looking for.

[rachael]

[Luthien]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1268373' date='May 8 2007, 09:54 PM']Sadly ladies, he was the last good man. The rest of us stink[/quote]


Aww I didn't say that did I?

[johnnydigit]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1269022' date='May 9 2007, 07:31 AM']I agree with much of what you write here -- but "just lift it up to God" makes it sound as though it's easy to deal with other peoples' faults, when it is anything but. The introduction of God and of real, self-sacrificing, fear-casting-out love into the equation ... that makes these choices really hard. It's because there suddenly [i]are[/i] choices, where before there were not. Without that kind of love, there is no need to choose to see past someone's faults. You can dismiss them from your life, wash your hands of them, and go on as if they never existed. But God requires more of us -- a death of self, a laying down of my own desires and wishes in submission to God's will for my life, and out of love for the other. Not the mushy, butterflies-in-the-stomach kind of love, but the real self-sacrificing kind where there is no room for fear.[/quote]

Saints make it seem pretty easy to deal with : so how can we heathens reach anywhere near such a level? for one, prayer. lots of it. two, make use of the Sacraments, frequently. three, add more prayer than the first one. PRAY. PRAY TOGETHER WITH HER/HIM!

so ya, PRAY. learn prayers. do them. do them all the time and throughout your work and day. does not the Bible tell us to pray unceasingly?

[b][size=3]prayer is a key to the heart of Jesus. prayer is a key to God[/size][/b]. i would think prayer can help unlock her/his/your heart, too.

i think i might be a big advocate of prayer..

[Sojourner]

[quote name='johnnydigit' post='1269465' date='May 9 2007, 04:57 PM']Saints make it seem pretty easy to deal with : so how can we heathens reach anywhere near such a level? for one, prayer. lots of it. two, make use of the Sacraments, frequently. three, add more prayer than the first one. PRAY. PRAY TOGETHER WITH HER/HIM!

so ya, PRAY. learn prayers. do them. do them all the time and throughout your work and day. does not the Bible tell us to pray unceasingly?

[b][size=3]prayer is a key to the heart of Jesus. prayer is a key to God[/size][/b]. i would think prayer can help unlock her/his/your heart, too.

i think i might be a big advocate of prayer..[/quote]
Ha! I'm no saint, not even close. My siggy used to be, "She could never be a saint, but she thought maybe she could be a martyr if they killed her quick." So, so true.

Prayer is pretty amazing ... although sometimes it's just not possible to pray with the person you're having issues with, for whatever reason. But I find that it changes me and my perspective, and keeps me cognizant of the whole person, keeping faults in context and helping me to see the true beauty of the individual.

[Norseman82]

hot stuff,

I'm going to make this as simple as possible.

In Acts, when the women who spoke Greek complained about their beef, the apostles did not call them whiners.

So why do YOU call people who have legitimate beefs whiners when the apostles did not?

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1268376' date='May 8 2007, 07:57 PM']I would HATE to see PM become a place centered around finding "true love." I like it the way it is ... a place focused on learning about the Catholic faith and hanging out.[/quote]

And pizza wagers, right?

[Jaime]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1269632' date='May 9 2007, 06:41 PM']hot stuff,

I'm going to make this as simple as possible.

In Acts, when the women who spoke Greek complained about their beef, the apostles did not call them whiners.

So why do YOU call people who have legitimate beefs whiners when the apostles did not?[/quote]

Ok I'll make this really simple for you

I don't call people with legitimate beefs whiners. I said Socrates was whining.


Now I'll make it reaaaaaaally simple for you

[quote]I'm calling out all those people who claim to be Catholic yet hypocritically have a "life's unfair, tough luck" attitude[/quote]

If you are saying that I only "claim" to be Catholic, stop being a wuss and say it.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1269692' date='May 9 2007, 10:33 PM']I don't call people with legitimate beefs whiners. I said Socrates was whining.[/quote]

Same thing! Unless you are saying that Socrates doesn't have a legitimate beef...

[Jaime]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1269696' date='May 9 2007, 08:40 PM']Same thing! Unless you are saying that Socrates doesn't have a legitimate beef...[/quote]

DING DING DING DING


*whew*

Now answer my question

[Norseman82]

[quote name='johnnydigit' post='1268985' date='May 9 2007, 05:26 AM']in either case, it would be beneficial to seek the love of God to fulfill all your needs before seeking a woman to fulfill them, because she just won't be able to. only God can fulfill you fully, then a mate is a bonus![/quote]

But in reality, what you describe is a lifelong process. I doubt it will be completed here on Earth. There is always room for improvement, and if we put off marriage for that reason, who would be getting married?

[Socrates]

Lol - wow! Look at all the drama my little rant last night stirred up!

Sorry - guess it was kind of whiny (I generally try to keep whining about my personal life off phatmass), but it was basically just venting, and was actually intended to be taken with a grain of salt (I said I was bitter and disillusioned).

My main point was that these Catholic dating sites are not necessarily the panacea they are advertized as. Some find "success" there, but many do not (And Ave Maria Singles is less than honest with their "success" statistics - they count marriages and relationships unrelated to the site).
I think there are some intrinsic problems to "online dating", and being a "good Catholic" site will not fix all those problems.

Every now and then, I see people here talk as though signing up on one of those sites, or being involved in parish events will almost guarantee them a good woman/man, but I was showing another side to the coin.

And I think hot stuff was being a bit judgmental here, knowing [i]nothing at all[/i] about my personal experiences. Implying that if I can't find a good woman, it's my own fault, is a bit ironic coming from someone "older and more single" than me.

I don't claim to be perfect, and I know I've got my problems, but I have seen my share of dishonesty and snottiness from the women, which I do not blame myself for.

It's also hard sometimes dealing with the (usually unspoken) smug attitude in Catholic circles, that people who are still single later in life are somehow less worthy than married couples, or that we must be resisting calls to the priesthood.

I know some good men out there who are still single through no real "fault" of their own, and I know some real creeps and a**holes who have gotten married, yet are considered somehow more "respectable" in church circles because of their "family man" status.

And it seems some single women do all they can to avoid meeting single men, spending time almost exclusively in social settings with married people, girlfriends, or their family, and not bothering with us single "losers."

Anyway, I'm though ranting here - just some random thoughts and observations.

Edited May 10, 2007 by Socrates

[Norseman82]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1269692' date='May 9 2007, 10:33 PM']If you are saying that I only "claim" to be Catholic, stop being a wuss and say it.[/quote]

In the sense that I saw a lot of mean-spiritedness in your posts over the past 24 hours....yes. I find a lot of what you said incompatible with gospel values.

Edited May 10, 2007 by Norseman82

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1269714' date='May 9 2007, 10:55 PM']I don't claim to be perfect, and I know I've got my problems, but I have seen my share of dishonesty and snottiness from the women, which I do not blame myself for.[/quote]

And on the whole subject of "what is it that I'm doing wrong here", it would certainly help if when we seek such feedback, the opposite half of humanity would be honest with us and not pull a "I'm not going to tell you, figure it out yourself" line of nonsense, otherwise how are going to know what to fix?

[Socrates]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1269734' date='May 9 2007, 10:08 PM']And on the whole subject of "what is it that I'm doing wrong here", it would certainly help if when we seek such feedback, the opposite half of humanity would be honest with us and not pull a "I'm not going to tell you, figure it out yourself" line of nonsense, otherwise how are going to know what to fix?[/quote]
Yeah, women will rarely tell what the problem is (and asking usually makes me feel pathetic, though I've actually done so a few times). Most women will do anything to avoid any perceived risk of confrontation, and usually avoid issues for fear of "hurting feelings" or getting people upset. But when they avoid this with dishonesty, that actually makes the problem mush worse (as well as destroys repsect for them).

[Socrates]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1269734' date='May 9 2007, 10:08 PM']And on the whole subject of "what is it that I'm doing wrong here", it would certainly help if when we seek such feedback, the opposite half of humanity would be honest with us and not pull a "I'm not going to tell you, figure it out yourself" line of nonsense, otherwise how are going to know what to fix?[/quote]
Yeah, women will rarely tell what the problem is (and asking usually makes me feel pathetic, though I've actually done so a few times). Most women will do anything to avoid any perceived risk of confrontation, and usually avoid issues for fear of "hurting feelings" or getting people upset. But when they avoid this with dishonesty, that actually makes the problem much worse (as well as destroys respect for them).

Edited May 10, 2007 by Socrates

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1269752' date='May 9 2007, 11:23 PM']Yeah, women will rarely tell what the problem is (and asking usually makes me feel pathetic, though I've actually done so a few times). Most women will do anything to avoid any perceived risk of confrontation, and usually avoid issues for fear of "hurting feelings" or getting people upset. But when they avoid this with dishonesty, that actually makes the problem much worse (as well as destroys respect for them).[/quote]

If I were out of line (and not on a trivial matter), I would want the woman to stand up to me! That's the type of woman I respect the most!