Why can't I find a good man?

[Norseman82]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1269767' date='May 9 2007, 11:50 PM']And you're right Soc. Being a single guy later in life generally gets you in one of two categories "something seriously wrong" or "gay". Granted in many cases, one of the two are generally true. But there are a few guys who are good guys and don't fall into either category. There is a stigmatism to being older and single and yes that does[/quote]

OK, now the $64,000 question for us guys: what do we do about it? Because it seems that all of our efforts of "being the best Catholic man we can be" is just leading us into brick walls.

At least the occasional "whine" or "vent" serves a useful purpose in letting people know there's a problem.

[Sojourner]

On the non-confrontative front ... I am typically not a big fan of confrontation, mostly because it's very difficult for me to verbalize emotions, and if I'm confronting someone I care about I am typically pretty emotional about it. I can write about it all day long, but actually SAYING what I feel about something, particularly when the emotions are strong, is just not something I do very often, and if I do verbalize how I feel about something it is typically only in a situation where I feel very, very safe. Confrontation doesn't engender that feeling of safeness, so it takes a lot for me to work up the courage to confront someone, because confrontation makes me feel vulnerable.

However ... as I'm now living with someone who is even more passive-aggressive than I am, I find myself increasingly frustrated with the non-confrontativeness. I think I finally understand how disrespectful it is ... maybe the next time I am in a relationship I will be able to get it right.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1269794' date='May 9 2007, 10:09 PM']OK, now the $64,000 question for us guys: what do we do about it? Because it seems that all of our efforts of "being the best Catholic man we can be" is just leading us into brick walls.

At least the occasional "whine" or "vent" serves a useful purpose in letting people know there's a problem.[/quote]

Again by whose standards? Who are you letting judge you?

I'd love to be married. Sometimes (on a rare occasion) I succumb to being whiney because I'm not. (Usually with a very good friend and a few shots of tequila)
But if that never happens for me, it doesn't abdicate my responsibility to be "the best Catholic man" I can be. So if it doesn't change anything, I won't let myself be judged by it.

Being the best Catholic man you can be has nothing to do with being married, single, widowed, divorced, whatever.

it has to do with me. Period. No one else. And no one is going to judge how good I am at being that except for God.

When I take that attitude, there are no brick walls.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1269799' date='May 10 2007, 12:11 AM']On the non-confrontative front ... I am typically not a big fan of confrontation, mostly because it's very difficult for me to verbalize emotions, and if I'm confronting someone I care about I am typically pretty emotional about it. I can write about it all day long, but actually SAYING what I feel about something, particularly when the emotions are strong, is just not something I do very often, and if I do verbalize how I feel about something it is typically only in a situation where I feel very, very safe. Confrontation doesn't engender that feeling of safeness, so it takes a lot for me to work up the courage to confront someone, because confrontation makes me feel vulnerable.[/quote]
Whoa! Terra...are you me? Cuz that's me, right there! (Well, I'll also confront when you've pushed me enough, but that never has to do with how I feel, that only works for if someones bashing on someone else or the Church or something.)

[Norseman82]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1269807' date='May 10 2007, 12:16 AM']Again by whose standards? Who are you letting judge you?

I'd love to be married. Sometimes (on a rare occasion) I succumb to being whiney because I'm not. (Usually with a very good friend and a few shots of tequila)
But if that never happens for me, it doesn't abdicate my responsibility to be "the best Catholic man" I can be. So if it doesn't change anything, I won't let myself be judged by it.

Being the best Catholic man you can be has nothing to do with being married, single, widowed, divorced, whatever.

it has to do with me. Period. No one else. And no one is going to judge how good I am at being that except for God.

When I take that attitude, there are no brick walls.[/quote]

What are you talking about?????

I'm referring to the fact that our best efforts are not yielding any results, and how to seek better results.....

Edited May 10, 2007 by Norseman82

[Sojourner]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1269808' date='May 9 2007, 11:16 PM']Whoa! Terra...are you me? Cuz that's me, right there! (Well, I'll also confront when you've pushed me enough, but that never has to do with how I feel, that only works for if someones bashing on someone else or the Church or something.)[/quote]
That I view as an entirely different situation. I can be pretty deadly in confrontation if my personal feelings are not involved ... if I'm debating something, for example. Or, if I'm really really angry about something, to the point that I've cut off my heart from the situation -- that ice cold anger. Then, I can be vicious with the words, because it's just my head and not my heart talking. That's a problem all it's own, because that is equally disrespectful and unloving. But the trouble with verbalization comes in when my heart is engaged, when I have a personal stake in the outcome of the confrontation.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1269816' date='May 9 2007, 11:22 PM']What are you talking about?????

I'm referring to the fact that our best efforts are not yielding any results......[/quote]
are you saying your best efforts are aimed solely at marriage?

or are they aimed at living as holy a life as you can in the circumstances you've been given?

Because if the only acceptable "result" is marriage, you may indeed end up unfulfilled.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1269816' date='May 9 2007, 10:22 PM']What are you talking about?????

I'm referring to the fact that our best efforts are not yielding any results, and how to seek better results.....[/quote]

Maybe that's part of the problem for you sport. If your best efforts are primarily to find a wife, then you've set yourself up to be the "best Catholic man" that you can be and you've failed.

If your best efforts are to be the best Catholic man that you can be for you and God, then that's a different story all together.

Being married should be secondary to being the best Catholic you can be.

And honestly, you make it sound like you are using it as a tactic to get a wife.

[Jaime]

I'm just adding more words in case I'm reaaally hungry when I meet you.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1269823' date='May 10 2007, 12:29 AM']Being married should be secondary to being the best Catholic you can be.[/quote]

hot stuff and Abby,

I make no secret about my desire for a family. I imagine it takes not having one to really appreciate it.

[b]If I knew I could handle the rest of my life without a wife and kids, I'd probably already be ordained[/b]. And I'm sure that holds true for countless others.

Knowing that I need a wife and kids is not setting myself up for unfillment, nor is it something that is secondary, nor is it cause for shame to want to see results from one's efforts; this is all simply the result of my discernment (and I wish people in general would stop questioning it!) coupled with the "corporate guy" mentality in me that is results-driven. And we need to reorient our whole modern discernment process AWAY FROM the Calvinistic notion of "God has hidden His will like it is an Easter egg in a hunt, and you need to spend the rest of your life searching for it" that has creeped into much young adult/singles ministry today and BACK TO the Catholic model of "what are you eligible for"/"what can you handle".

And considering that [b]the Bible itself recognizes the fact that not everyone can handle celibacy[/b] (and I really wish people would let that sink in), for the vast majority being married actually ASSISTS you in being the best Catholic one can be. I know that doesn't fit into today's modern psychobabble, but it does when we factor in God's Word. This is a fact that is lost in today's secular world.

(hot stuff, you must have heard about the high price of food at Wrigley field).

Edited May 10, 2007 by Norseman82

[XIX]

If I could get rid of this unfulfilled hole just by going to Adoration and Daily Mass and Rosary and etc., I'd totally ditch this accounting career thing that I'm trying to somehow throw together, and just apply for the seminary. If not, then I'd make a living taking phone calls for the rest of my life, or something like that. Just live by myself, put in 40 hours a week, make enough to support myself, and let it be. And keep doing that until they let me into the seminary.

I'm only speaking for myself here. There's always going to be something hurting when i know that I'm here and *she* is not. It's kinda like purgatory on earth, I imagine.

[Paladin D]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1269714' date='May 9 2007, 11:55 PM']It's also hard sometimes dealing with the (usually unspoken) smug attitude in Catholic circles, that people who are still single later in life are somehow less worthy than married couples, or that we must be resisting calls to the priesthood.

I know some good men out there who are still single through no real "fault" of their own, and I know some real creeps and a**holes who have gotten married, yet are considered somehow more "respectable" in church circles because of their "family man" status.

And it seems some single women do all they can to avoid meeting single men, spending time almost exclusively in social settings with married people, girlfriends, or their family, and not bothering with us single "losers."

Anyway, I'm though ranting here - just some random thoughts and observations.[/quote]


I completely agree with you.

Sometimes I feel pressured because since I'm currently not dating, and being 20, I must be resisting the call to the priesthood. Who knows? My destiny could be very well the priesthood, which I find to be an awesome and honorable way of life, but just because I haven't found a girl that I feel comfortable going out with yet, doesn't automatically mean I must start heading to seminary. It's a dangerous attuide that exists, and I find it ironic that many of these people that promote this are married themselves.

Edited May 10, 2007 by Paladin D

[johnnydigit]

remember that we're all at different spiritual levels, so we can't label someone as to how "Catholic" they are. well i guess we can, but it's not nice and we should practice humility.

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1269706' date='May 9 2007, 08:48 PM']But in reality, what you describe is a lifelong process. I doubt it will be completed here on Earth. There is always room for improvement, and if we put off marriage for that reason, who would be getting married?[/quote]

you make a good point. however i think what i'm talking about is a sort of detachment. ideally we're all called to detach ourselves fully from the things of the world (while still living in it), but i'm referring more to the "need" that people feel to find a mate. the stress they feel, the need to consider if every person you meet fits the imaginary "slot" that you create next to you for a potential mate. filling that slot with God first takes all the pressure off. discerning properly and accepting whatever God wills for you, whoever God wills it to be for you. accepting that it will happen in God's time, as God wishes, so you can take the burden off your back. realizing that you don't NEED someone to make you happy, that you can be perfectly happy as a single person with God at your side.
detach yourself from the notion that a mate will complete you, but rather God is the only one that will complete you. your mate is your spouse whom you help to reach God, and to raise a family with (not to demean their role, but to emphasize God). remember God is always the top priority, then your spouse, then your kids, then your family, then your friends, then your work, if i recall in that descending order.
i feel that when you feel you have God at your center and you are content with having only Him, you are then ready for your spouse. anytime before that, and you won't be complete. you may be "needy", or not as confident since you have the burden on you. this may even affect the person you choose.

so ya you can look at it as putting off marriage, but only to find yourself first, find your ultimate reality, the ultimate reality, which is God. not saying you wait until you're perfect and completed in heaven, but enough to genuinely know it is God who fulfills you and not a person. for some they can do this sooner than later, and still be young enough to marry. if you can't really find God in this way until you're old, well you were probably meant to be seeking Him and not be married anyways. that's what a part of discerning is. i think it's that fear of the latter which keeps people from discerning their vocation..


hope that makes some sense. i want to be the best i can be for my future wife, and i believe it is finding/completing yourself, which is finding God, and completing yourself with God. from there our famiily future would rest in His hands..

[johnnydigit]

[quote name='XIX' post='1269845' date='May 9 2007, 11:25 PM']If I could get rid of this unfulfilled hole just by going to Adoration and Daily Mass and Rosary and etc., I'd totally ditch this accounting career thing that I'm trying to somehow throw together, and just apply for the seminary. If not, then I'd make a living taking phone calls for the rest of my life, or something like that. Just live by myself, put in 40 hours a week, make enough to support myself, and let it be. And keep doing that until they let me into the seminary.

I'm only speaking for myself here. There's always going to be something hurting when i know that I'm here and *she* is not. It's kinda like purgatory on earth, I imagine.[/quote]

Adoration and Daily Mass and Rosary and etc. are a great start, regardless of where God may want you. in fact i think that is the best start, for everyone. they don't mean you'll be called to religious life at all. that is the beauty of proper discernment. broken record: we all have a vocation - single, married, or religious. all require proper discernment to discern God's will for us. the problem is, 99% of the world doesn't discern and assumes the only realistic vocation for them is marriage. i think for most, deep down it's fear that it's religious life. we've all been there, and it's all normal. it's funny how these are all the typical phases that everyone has gone through, so know that you're not alone.

every religious gets lonely and feels that exact same way. if they don't, there is something wrong with them. someone said Mother Angelica said to all the incoming seminarians something like, "is there anyone who doesn't want to get married or have kids? ok bye! please leave now, thank you very much!"

don't be afraid of finding God's will for you. trust that God only wants you to be as happy as you can possibly be, and the choices are always your free will. not following God is following misery.

oh ya, cool thing i learned, God = ultimate reality.. insanity = lost touch with reality. therefore if you aren't in touch with God.. (insanity).


[quote name='Paladin D' post='1269854' date='May 10 2007, 12:21 AM']I completely agree with you.

Sometimes I feel pressured because since I'm currently not dating, and being 20, I must be resisting the call to the priesthood. Who knows? My destiny could be very well the priesthood, which I find to be an awesome and honorable way of life, but just because I haven't found a girl that I feel comfortable going out with yet, doesn't automatically mean I must start heading to seminary. It's a dangerous attuide that exists, and I find it ironic that many of these people that promote this are married themselves.[/quote]

discernment is definitely not easy. it seems especially harder for our generation. going through discernment however, gives you confidence that you properly discerned the will of God, and if it's marriage, then you know you can shut the door on religious life and never worry about it again. to me, ignoring it is like ignoring the will of God and choosing your own way.

it's funny how the proper way is the way that the world condemns us for, yet again.

i learned that entering the seminary is not a full commitment either. it is also considered a time of discernment. the core of discernment is truely discovering who you are deep down inside. often being in the world gets too busy to let you do this. many leave the seminary because they learn that it is not for them afterall. they discerned the will of God the best they could, and now they can close the chapter on that one. 1 down, 2 to go. (marriage or single). now you can attend singles, engagement, and even marriage classes to prepare yourself even more.

also the time span is different for everyone. some know it automatically. some spend a few years. some decades. some go in and out, in and out. none are wrong.

a general spiritual director is a great idea for everyone as well, no matter where you're at. they could have told you all these things, plus much more. with the help of God, they will give you the peace and strength you need to face your future.

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='Paladin D' post='1269854' date='May 10 2007, 02:21 AM']Sometimes I feel pressured because since I'm currently not dating, and being 20, I must be resisting the call to the priesthood. Who knows? My destiny could be very well the priesthood, which I find to be an awesome and honorable way of life, but just because I haven't found a girl that I feel comfortable going out with yet, doesn't automatically mean I must start heading to seminary. It's a dangerous attuide that exists, and I find it ironic that many of these people that promote this are married themselves.[/quote]

Really? In recent years I've been wondering if people should put off dating until they are at least 18...
I didn't have a first serious boyfriend until I was 23.


[quote]God is always the top priority, then your spouse, then your kids, then your family, then your friends, then your work[/quote]


I didn't know there was a specified ordered list -- I've never heard of this (aside from the obvious, putting God first and the general lesson of having the right priorities.) Where is that from? Just curious...

Edited May 10, 2007 by Ash Wednesday